Comments on: Hate Crime Charge In W.Va. Torture Case

One Of Whites Accused In Torture And Sexual Assault Of Black Woman Faces Hate Charge

[pfd572]

You brought up the black murder statistic like you were saying they were victims of hate murders. If that wasn''t your intention then it was misunderstood under the context you presented it. And I am in no way belittling any violent act against anyone, and I am intensely frustrated by the level of racism and intolerance that still exists today. I will say it again, ignorance is the cause and education, involvement and understanding by all people is necessary to stop the cycle. Poverty is the worse form of violence.

I have expressed how I am saddened beyond words at the abuse this young woman endured. I also agree that crimes against minority women and children is grossly underreported.

And you better believe I am against the death penalty and proud to admit it. For so many reasons. Mainly: The disproportionate number of black men being sentenced to death because of lack of funds to retain adequate counsel or the bias in some states, and the number of people found to be wrongly convicted and cleared AFTER sentencing.

[iceman_1960]

"Sorry, I assumed you are an adult and know how to use Google."
- Posted by whatithink at 04:22 AM : Feb 07, 2008

And if not, he could easily have googled the instructions.

Actually, only kids use Google. Grown-ups use Dogpile.

http://www.dogpile.com/

[whatithink-2009]

Again, as we focus on generalities this case gets lost. The woman''s pain belittled. I''ve been to discussion boards about Natalee Holloway, for example, and at least there people could spend a bit of time discussing the sadness of the case...instead of constantly bringing up cases that had nothing to do with it.

[whatithink-2009]

Posted by pfd572 at 04:18 AM : Feb 07, 2008

Also, if your issue is subjectivity in prosecutions, you must be fully against the death penalty. The decision to take someone''s life via the courts in this country IS THE MOST subjective judicial process. The number of people who have been exonerated based on DNA testing also proves that it is not only subjective but open to many mistakes.

[whatithink-2009]

Posted by pfd572 at 04:18 AM : Feb 07, 2008

Sorry, I assumed you are an adult and know how to use Google. http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2006/table1.html

The issue has never been about the pendulum shifting. The issue has always been about people judging certain cases worse than others because of how the victim looked. Do you also complain about the media coverage given to certain missing persons?

[pfd572]

And I would be more than willing to say mea culpa if you would provide examples instead of just saying to look at the stats. What stats are available that breaks hate crime prosecution down by race of victims and suspects?

hmmmmm?

What is the saying?.....Those that don''t learn from the past are doomed to repeat it? Allowing the unbalanced and selective prosecution of crime is a mistake, no matter what the ''good'' intentions. And I still think hate crime legislation is too subjective, if it would be decided on a more objective level maybe I would praise the intentions.

[whatithink-2009]

Posted by pfd572 at 04:09 AM : Feb 07, 2008

This is ONE case being reported. Where do you see the pendulum shifting in the other direction? If you''d look at FBI statistics you''d see the hate crimes have been charged against ALL races.

And, I don''t care who is killing the black males. That is part of the problem. As long as black people are killing each other, the general society doesn''t view it as a national problem. It becomes THEIR PROBLEM.

By the way, most white people are killed by other white people as well.

[whatithink-2009]

It''s just ashame that we can''t discuss this case without someone trying to belittle it by bringing up cases that have nothing to do with it. Of course not all cases may make it to the national media but then the media should stop reporting on anything. Because when Natalee Holloway went missing somebody else went missing, when Laci Peterson went missing somebody else went missing, when the family in CT was murdered somebody else was also murdered.

50% of the murder victims in the US are black males but they receive about 0% of the national media coverage and even at the local level it''s fortunate to find something on page 60. Incidents were black females are also the victims receive also a small amount of the media coverage. Yet, for some people this is still too much...as in this case, the need to belittle the situation.

Shameful.

[pfd572]

whatithink:

I am more than passingly aware of what has been the history of crimes against blacks and other minorities. But to say that the pendulum needs to swing overly far in the other direction is insulting to all minorities. I am a ''minority'' and all I want is a level playing field, not one that favors any group over another.

Did YOU know that in most cases of black male murders is black on black crime? The result of anger and frustration, plus the feeling of hopelessness. What is needed is access to the same level of education, not entitlement, encouragement, not condescension, involvement, not armchair activism. We were talking about hate crimes, something that is not colorblind, and what needs to be done about these acts TODAY. All races are committing violent crime against other races because of ignorance. And none of it is justified, regardless of the past.

[whatithink-2009]

Posted by pfd572 at 02:32 AM : Feb 07, 2008

If you were to use facts instead of emotions you''d see that hate crimes have been charged against the full spectrum of society. Just look at the statistics.

By the way, read/look at the picture book Without Sanctuary - Lynching Photography in America. It''s available via Amazon. You''ll see the pictures of people there who you can blame for the necessity of hate crime bills.

[whatithink-2009]

Posted by Trueprogress at 01:22 AM : Feb 07, 2008

50% of the murder victims in the U.S. are black males. When there is a murder case with a white person are you pointing this out to everyone? If your concern is fairness, don''t you think it might be good to start there...unless you are just as biased as you claim the media is.

[pfd572]

Adding the included charge of hate onto a crime is so subjective and for that reason it should be discontinued. One has to ''assume'' what someone was thinking at the time the crime was committed, a very slippery slope. And the authorities can and do take into account only the political and social ramifications of charging or not charging as a hate crime. I abhor ANY crime based on race, sexual orientation, etc., the the statutes for physical crimes are severe enough, in fact more severe, than the penalties for a hate crime. Racism is not colored blind, so-called ''hate'' crimes are committed every day by whites, hispanics, and blacks. How many times has a minority been charged with a hate crime? It could be political suicide to charge a minority with a hate crime and that is the fault with the statutes, too subjective and easy to abuse. There will never be a level playing field, but it is morally wrong to tilt too far the other way. Saying all this, I hope these animals are sentenced to the most severe penalties allowed under the other charges. I pray for Ms. Williams and her family to find some justice from the courts and peace from knowing the right things were done for them.

[babarzm]

tiptoe3333,

Not at all mate every life is important.

It is difficult for me to accept though that Iraqis civilians are the right bait to capture those terrorists.

[colonieny]

Sgt RDS: I read about the Long Beach case, yes the Black kids and one adult were convicted, but they served no jail time, all put on community service. The judge I am sure was fearful of a riot. One of the poor white girls had her face smashed in by a skate board, the attacker was a "star" athelete in HS. She thought he was going to rescue her, but he didn''t. The papers said she had permanent face pain, and other face problems. No sympathy from Jesse or Al ? no way.
The poor girls were savagely attacked. The attackers had Jesse come to their aid to be sure they got a fair trail, and NAACP too. True. look it up

[noirceur]

This horror story made me so angry,not just because of what these monsters did,but because they WILL NOT get what they deserve.All six should die,after a week of severe torture.My heart and best wishes go out to this young lady.Our justice system needs a major over-haul.And I am sick of people whinning about peoples rights that would do this to another human being.

[tiptoe3333]

babarzm let''s not forget about the people..on 9/11.
or have you forgotten about them already??

[roswi]

Is Al Sharpton also pushing for hate crime charges in the Channon Christian and Christopher Newsome case? He should be, they were tortured and murdered because of their race.

[babarzm]

Yeah and do not forget to remember the Iraqis died during and after the military assault. A conservative estimate quotes more then 100,000 deaths.

They are also humans after all.

[sgtrds]

Before I hit the sack I just wanted to point out that there is a story of a young Marine hero on this site who was killed on his 3rd tour in Iraq and no one seems to have noticed. I''''''''m sure that his parents and family are checking the posting a lot and it sure would be nice if some folks could drop the young man a thank you to make the family feel better. Sort of like signing the book at a funeral it makes the survivors feel better that people care.

[klifton2-2009]

In America, nothing is what it seems. Racism is alive and well. America is one of the world''s most racist countries that try very hard to pretend it is not! Ask any person of color and they will tell you what it really is not what it appears to be.