Comments on: Airport Death Doctor: Police Blew It

Family's Pathologist Agrees On Accidental Strangulation, But Says It Could Have Been Prevented

[andor3]

"What caring husband would allow a very sick alcoholic, drug user to travel alone ..."

This blame-the-victims family argument is way off. She was apparently functioning very well. Thousands of people with substance abuse issues travel by air daily. Alcoholics travel all the time. And she had successfully made most of her trip already. She had been through another airport and other bars and another flight.

She was not a "drug user," she was taking prescribed medication. That is really twisting things and that is what is outrageous--there seem to be people who want to make her less human or less sane or less valuable, as if at some point she can be labeled or demeaned enough then her death is not as tragic or we can ignore the investigation and punishments.

On the other hand, the family had made a responsible decision to have her get treatment. Her husband was calling her by cell phone frequently. And she flew--better she would drive?

[goldesprit]

"She was treated cruelly, as if she were some kind of a terrorist, which of course she was not," Wecht said.

Woe to the individual or agency who treats US this way. BE F------ WARE.

[rudy654-2009]

Posted by andor3 at 04:47 PM

Well said! Bravo!! And think about this, what if a child in a daycare setting suddenly went out of control emotionally, screaming, kicking, biting, hitting, throwing things, etc. and the daycare worker decided to tie the child up, left the child unattended, and that child choked to death? Do you think someone would say that the daycare worker acted properly?????? Let me just say that such things have happened and the daycare worker went to jail.

[stevex47]

They murdered her. Totally inhuman treatment for a mother who just needed some help.

[rudy654-2009]

Oh Dr. Wecht! Don''t you know that people will blame the victim almost every time???? It doesn''t matter that they left an emotionally disturbed woman tied to a chain like a dog and unattended, and that when she was strangely quiet, they said to themselves, "It''s about time that wench shut up!" No, as far as these people are concerned she got what she deserved, and she''s fortunate she didn''t get worse. They feel the world, their little world, is better off without the "trouble maker" and "good riddance!" I''m sorry to say Doctor, the dog-eat-dog, cruel mentality is in full force in our society.

[sdr11]

it seems the Gotbaum family is looking to remove blame from themselves. What caring husband would allow a very sick alcoholic, drug user to travel alone and check herself into rehab

[andor3]

"Doesnt make it the polices fault that she drank, resisted, tried to work the cuffs around, and either got herself into a bad position..."
Yes it does.
She drank--police should be trained in dealing with irate and intoxicated passengers. That''s common in airports.
Resisted--she was clearly unarmed, had been through security screening and multiple armed officers approached her in a confrontational manner and escalated the situation and her condition unreasonably.
Work the cuffs--police did not use proper restraint technique.
Bad position--she was left unattended for a long period, unreasonable in her condition. Imagine how long it takes to work the restraints around and then asphyxiate.

"...it''s not something you''d reasonably expect..."
I disagree. I would expect it and I''m not in a job where I deal with drunk or irate or agitated people under stress on a daily basis. I know not to leave a drunk person alone because they can choke on vomit. I know that when a person is screaming and freaking out they should neither be left alone for long periods nor restrained in a way where they can injure themselves.

[dthepope]

It seems to me, if this woman was so cared for by family and friends, someone would have accompanied her on her journey to the rehab facility. An alcoholic alone enroute to rehab with an opportunity to use? This family''s medical doctor or whomever was in charge of overseeing her care should have informed someone of this potential. And as far as thinking she was in medical distress, why would the police think she was anything but a raving drunk? This woman should have just waited for another flight, but instead chose to argue with gate employees and create chaos for everyone. It is indeed a tragig death and easy to now criticize the police, but the family needs to look at themselves in the mirror and ask why someone didn''t accompany this "sick and mentally distressed" individual to the rehab facility. Maybe they should have educated themselves on substance abuse as it relates to alcoholics so they could have realized the potential for this woman to drink again.

[andor3]

Everyone agrees this was an accident. That means:

1. It should not have happened.

2. The victim is not at fault (and it should be asked who is at fault).

3. It could have been prevented (and it should be asked how it might have been prevented and if those are things that should have been done).

It is much like if a metal beam fell from the airport ceiling and crushed her--people would then be asking who designed the beam, was it inspected, was she standing in a restricted area, etc.

And there would be a few nutso people who would say air travel is dangerous and air travelers who stand under ceilings can expect beams to fall on them.

[susanhelit]

NextProphet - if you''re an example of Ron Paul supporters, I can cross him off my candidate list. You don''t even remotely know the facts of this case, not even simplest basics, and you want to judge the case on that.

[susanhelit]

andor - she was arrested. For disorderly conduct. The officer told her she was under arrest when he put the cuffs on - if you read the police report. She wasn''t charged with resisting, although they sure could have. And if you''ve ever seen the video, or heard any witness accounts, you''d know she did plenty more than argue. She''s screaming and yelling at everyone in the airport, even after many took time and tried to help her.

She didn''t deserve to die - nor does the drunk who goes to take a shower, falls and dies in the bath. Doesn''t make it the police''s fault that she drank, resisted, tried to work the cuffs around, and either got herself into a bad position and passed out, or attempted suicide and passed out. That''s not their fault, because it''s not something you''d reasonably expect, no reason to take precautions against something so unforseeable as that.


Saying she obviously needed medical attention is twisting the facts - she was behaving no differently than any other angry drunk.

[andor3]

It is strange that some people are going to such great efforts to twist and ignore the facts to try to excuse the negligence of the police, and worse to blame the victim.

Here is a woman who did nothing wrong and certainly nothing that should have resulted in her death. Had the officers not made a series of obvious mistakes or been properly trained in dealing with distraught or intoxicated people, this would not have happened. Clearly, they should have been trained and prepared--that is the job of airport police.

It seems she did little more than argue with airline employees (and the idea of resiting arrest as her offense is laughable--you cannot be arrested for resisting arrest and it is not clear she was arrested). Public intoxication, anger, arguing with authorities--all reasonable behavior. And nothing that should have resulted in her death.

[mediapreachr]

What if this woman was your mom,or your sister or someone you cared about?
C''mon people show some affection for your fellow human being.I watched the scene on tv and it reminds me of the good old days of Soviet Union.

[nextprophet]

SHE STRANGLED HERSELF?
If the cops wouldn''t have overeacted and arrested that lady at Sky Harbor, she''d still be alive. What did she do that was illegal? She complained too emphatically to the boarding agent who wouldn''t allow her on the plane, notwithstanding the fact that the plane was still at the gate. That would have made me angry too, and rightfully so. I''ve encountered the type of holier than thou airline employees this lady encountered at the boarding gate. Now, under the oxymoronically-named Patriot Act, airline employees can have you arrested for the most minor of slants to their authority over you. Doubt me? Just say something cross-ways to a an airline employee the next time you go to the airport, or while you''re in-flight. Watch what they do, and see how they react for yourself. You''ll be a believer then. This is how far we''ve devolved as a nation. You''re not even allowed to express your dissatisfaction to an airline employee without The Department of Homeland Security, treating you like a terrorist. "Those were Phoenix Cops," you say? Well, under provisions of the Pariot Act, ALL airport Law enforcement personnel, including Phoenix cops, patroling in International Airports, do so under the oversight and supervision of The Department of Homeland Security--Bush''s version of the Gestapo. They''re nothing but jack-booted thugs with double-digit IQs and six-digit digit incomes. It''s one of the first departments Ron Paul says he will get rid of WHEN he''s elected. I can''t wait.

[facts6]

Airports have a bar at every corner. Why did her family allow a known drunk to fly WITH A LAY OVER?

[beehive21-2009]

Please,do not blame the police for your foolish friend who killed her self,this is about more greed ,they what $$$. and shall try cashing in on society to line there pockets with gold,disgusting,what people have evolved into lately.

[susanhelit]

She was out of control, and needed to be arrested - you''d get arrested acting like that in a 7/11, let alone in an airport. She was obviously angry, and out of control - you can see that clearly in the tape and from what the other travellers in the airport said - but there''s nothing I saw in any tape, in any examination that they could have seen to know what would happen.

She was restrained, and as well as possible, and watched pretty closely - never left without someone looking more often than every 10 minutes, in earshot of several different cops - they took reasonable precautions.

Wecht is just saying what he''s paid to say - what will lead to a lawsuit or sympathy for the family. Not sure which - they''ve got money, but the MIL has talked of running for mayor, and letting your alcoholic, ill, step-daughter fly to rehab alone, then trying to hide from her by asking the police to use a false name for her so the media doesn''t catch a connection - that''s not going to look good. From what I hear, she runs as a consumer advocate, so making the police and airlines look bad help her political stature.

[boxerchick7]

It is a shame that this woman died, but my grandpa always said "when you hear hoofbeats, think horses--not zebras." The police had a female who had a blood alcohol level three times the Arizona limit (and witness had said she smelled of alcohol), screaming and having a tantrum about not being allowed to get on her airline. The most logical and rational explanation was that she was intoxicated. She was not wearing a medic alert bracelet that indicated she had a medical condition that might need attention when she would be unable to ask for it appropriately.

Obviously, if she was this unstable she should not have been travelling alone. Her family seems hell bent on not taking any responsibility for allowing this fragile woman to travel alone to rehab--or did she change flights so she could have one more trip through the bar before she was locked up? No one will ever know.

This is just another case of a wealthy family taking no responsibility for caring for their own. And their "expert" . . . since when was medical school required before you could become a police officer? Bottom line, she shouldn''t have travelled alone--but if she was going to, she should have worn a medic alert bracelet so folks would know she had a condition that might require treatment when she wasn''t able to request it herself.

[denn034]

Hindsight is 20/20. Yes, mistakes were made but, that''s what learning from them is for. Here''s hoping that changes are made to keep this from happening again.

[itsnotaboutu]

Yes, her family should have been with her. However, THAT does not let the inept cops in Phoenix out of the irresponsible part they played in her death. The cops did nothing wrong??? How about leaving an obviously deranged person alone screaming in a holding cell without calling for some kind of intervention professional??? Negligence.