Comments on: Airport Death Doctor: Police Blew It

Family's Pathologist Agrees On Accidental Strangulation, But Says It Could Have Been Prevented

[nextprophet]

CLINTON LETS BUSH PARDON HIMSELF
Buried deep inside Military Commisions Act, which was FULLY SUPPORTED by Senators Clinton, Obama and McCain, is a provision which pre-pardons President Bush and all the members of his administration for any crimes which they may have committed all the way back to September 11, 2001. Why that far back? That kind of makes you wonder. Huh? I can''t help but recall what Nixon said during an interview following the Watergate scandal when he said, "If the President does it, by definition, it''s not illegal." History never repeats itself, folks. It only rhymes. At least Nixon had enough class to wait for another President to pardon him for his crimes against our country. Bush apparently doesn''t want to take that chance. He has to consider the risk that Ron Paul will become our next President.

[nextprophet]

CAMPING OUT WITH HALIBURTION
The John Warner Defense Authorization Act, which was supported by Clinton, Obama and McCain, permits militarized police round-ups and detention of protesters ("potential terrorists") and other "undesirables" for detention in facilities which are already contracted for and under construction by Kellog, Brown & Root, a subsidiary of Halliburton. This Law, which was sold to an "emergency managed" and willfully gullible public in the wake of the 9/11 attacks as a necessary measure needed by our President in order to fight his "global war on terrorism," permits the indefinite detention of American citizens who resists the foreign and domestic agenda of our President. The Journal of Counterterrorism & Homeland Security International reported recently that global engineering and technical services powerhouse, Kellog, Brown & Root announced during January 2006 that its Government and Infrastructure division had been awarded a (no bid) Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity contract to build these detainment camps with a maximum total value of $385 million over a five year term, and that this contract called for the company to build "temporary detention and processing capabilities" to augment existing U.S. government Detention and Removal Operations and to support "the rapid development of new programs." New Programs? Could it possibly get any worse? Why would the president be so concerned about Americans protesting? Aren''t we all happy campers?

[usayesterday]

That is an interesting idea. Wonder how much revenue the airport and airlines get from alcohol sales? It would be ironic if airport security is funded by alcohol sales, especially if alcohol is involved in many incidents they deal with.

Posted by andor3 at 06:16 PM : Nov 13, 2007
...........

Very good point, and a very valid question indeed.

If Airport Security or any other portion of airport operations are funded by the sales of alcohol on the premises, then it would be interesting to see how much of a shortfall there would be if alcohol was completely banned on site.

I understand the tax revenue that alcohol provides a municipality. The fees and taxes the individual airport businesses pay on a regular basis might just be the windfall the airport needs to help fund the essential security measures needed these days.

It would be nice to see those revenue statistics. If airport/airline alcohol sales provides a large sum of revenue for airport/airline operations, then sadly, alcohol would have to be a "necessary evil" I guess. However, if the revenue from alcohol sales taxes and licensing fees are minimal (in terms of percentage) in regards to the operations of an airport...

...then there should be steps taken to ban the sale of alcohol in these places. For the sake of preventing future tragedies like in this article.

[nextprophet]

ARE WE A NATION OF LAWS?
Consider the Patriot Act. The Law is 342 pages long, or 57,000 words, making it a bit longer than Dostoevsky''s "Notes from Underground" or, if you''re partial to pigs, about twice the size of Orwell''s "Animal Farm." The Patriot Act is the reigning champion of our government''s recent un-American activities. When it was first paraded before Congress and the Senate following the 9/11 attacks, few Members, other than Congressman, Ron Paul dared to vote against it. Most in Congress simply gave it their rubber-stamp of approval, without ever reading it. Why bother? It was, after all, named the "USA Patriot Act." It must be a good thing. Right? Now in effect, the Law wrecks a generation''s worth of constitutional protections against government snooping, legalizing police-state tactics in searches and seizures, criminalizing certain forms of speech and political activity, and opening the way for the mistreatment of foreigners in government custody and wholesale expulsions and imprisonment. It is a repugnant, unnecessary Law that goes against the very principles its name wrongly implies. Yet, it remains unchecked and unbalanced by public opinion, Lawmakers or the Courts. So, yes, we''re a nation of Laws. But the Laws aren''t much to speak of when they''re designed to hoodwink the public to win its docility. Neither is public responsibility much to speak of these days when its docility is secured with nothing more than a ploy-riddled play on the word "patriot."

[nextprophet]

SHE STRANGLED HERSELF?
If the cops wouldn''t have overeacted and arrested that lady at Sky Harbor, she''d still be alive. What did she do that was illegal? She complained too emphatically to the boarding agent who wouldn''t allow her on the plane, notwithstanding the fact that the plane was still at the gate. That would have made me angry too, and rightfully so. I''ve encountered the type of holier than thou airline employees this lady encountered at the boarding gate. Now, under the oxymoronically-named Patriot Act, airline employees can have you arrested for the most minor of slants to their authority over you. Doubt me? Just say something cross-ways to a an airline employee the next time you go to the airport, or while you''re in-flight. Watch what they do, and see how they react for yourself. You''ll be a believer then. This is how far we''ve devolved as a nation. You''re not even allowed to express your dissatisfaction to an airline employee without The Department of Homeland Security, treating you like a terrorist. "Those were Phoenix Cops," you say? Well, under provisions of the Pariot Act, ALL airport Law enforcement personnel, including Phoenix cops, patroling in International Airports, do so under the oversight and supervision of The Department of Homeland Security--Bush''s version of the Gestapo. They''re nothing but jack-booted thugs with double-digit IQs and six-digit digit incomes. It''s one of the first departments Ron Paul says he will get rid of WHEN he''s elected. I can''t wait.

[Krazcarl]

TUCKER THAT IS A A GREAT REASON TO CHOCK HER TO DEATH TO GET BACK AT THE LITTLE TART OR JUST LEAVE HER CHAINED UP IN A BACK ROOM WITH 0 WARRENTS AND 0 ARRESTI''M STARTING TO QUESTION YOUR SANITY

[gmond]

If there is a civil suit, it is likely that liability will be found on both sides.

[Krazcarl]

ANDOR3 YOUR A BABBLING FOOL AND SPEAK NOTHING OF THE ISSUES BUT YOUR PERSONAL COMFORT

[andor3]

USAyesterday said: "... we can start preventing future incidents like this by banning all alcohol on Airport property, including the alcohol served in the air. "

That is an interesting idea. Wonder how much revenue the airport and airlines get from alcohol sales? It would be ironic if airport security is funded by alcohol sales, especially if alcohol is involved in many incidents they deal with.

[Krazcarl]

TUCKER YOU AND I KNOW 80% OF POLICE WORK IS DEALING WITH DRUNKS SO SHUT UP AND DON''T LOOK STUPID I''VE HAD COPS TELL ME THAT

[usayesterday]

Posted by andor3 at 05:57 PM : Nov 13, 2007
...........

You clearly omitted that she was an alcoholic.

Combine that addiction with depression and suicidal tendencies are bound to occur.

She needed an escort throughout her travels to this treatment facility and her "family" did not provide it. Neither her "husband" nor her mother-in-law.

Carol Anne Gotbaum''s family, in terms of their responsibility to her, comes first. Therefore, their culpability in her death comes first.

Ultimately, we can start preventing future incidents like this by banning all alcohol on Airport property, including the alcohol served in the air. Alcohol has been the culprit in so many of the irate passenger incidents that it would do all of us much good if it was completely eliminated from airport (and airline) property.

But back to Carol Anne...

Her death was primarily from the negligence of her family first... and possibly the airport police a distant second. Further investigations, I''m sure, will uncover more details.

[andor3]

tuckerndfw said "... she was a suicidal lunatic ... her hubby and doctor ... [are] responsible since they allowed her to travel without an adult escort.

You choose your labels. I will choose mine: mother of three, well-off, suffering from depression, seeking treatment. Suicide had nothing to do with her death. I guess you call depression "lunacy" which shows your ignorance on the subject.

So are you arguing that all families of depressed people who travel alone by air should reasonably expect their loved ones to be killed by airport security? Or only middle-aged women? Or only those who travel through Phoenix? Or will you backpedal and claim her death was not reasonable nor reasonably expected?

[Krazcarl]

This was nothing more than a political deal THE COPS GET OFF THE FAMILY WILL GET TRUST FUNDS FOR THE CHILDREN AND ALL YOU HOLLIER THAN THOUGHS CAN BLAME IT ON THE FAMILY AND HAVE FAITH THAT POLICE ARE TRUSTED SERVENTS HAVEN''T YOU BEEN READING THE NEWS LATLY COP BUTHERS SIX FOR ONE.I''M A RECOVERING ALCHOLIC iF AN ADULT DOES NOT WANT TO GO YOU CAN''T DRAG THEM IN YOU HAVE TO TRUST THEY WANT TREATMENT WHICH SHE DID SO SHE POUNDED A FEW BEFORE SHE GUT THERE SHE WAS FRIGHTENED AND DIDN''T KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT. I''M 200 LBS I HAVE 0 FEAR OF A 110 MIDDLE AGED WOMAN UNLESS SHES WAVING A GUN A MORON COULD HANDLE THE SITUATION MOST COPS SUSPECTS ARE DRUNS PERIOD. SO YOU PIOUS B*STEREDS I KNOW THE REALITY THEY WERE GOING TO TECH HER A LESSON REMEMBER IF YOUR ARRESTED PICKED UP JUST ACT LIKE THE HORRIFFIED FOOLS YOU ARE.

[grammawhamma]

rudy....Look at it this way. Her family more then likely would not have let her get drunk on the flight or at the airport bars. If she would have been accompanied by family and still arrested for some reason. She would still not have been left unattended in the holding cell because her family member would have been right there.

[rudy654-2009]

"Now people are actually trying to argue that a person who has a history of suicidal behavior or alcohol abuse should reasonably expect to be killed if he or she travels by air unaccompanied! Or that such a person is worthless so that her death can be thought of as excusable!" Andor3

Again, you have explained it so clearly and so well! Surely you work in the mental health somewhere?

[rudy654-2009]

"If she would have been accompanied by a friend or family member she would still be alive"

That is by no means certain!!! In fact, a couple years ago a man who suffered from schizophrenia was accompanied by his wife in the airport and both got on the flight together when out of the blue he started shouting he had a bomb and ran off the plane and was promptly shot. There is no way in he11 you can sit there at your computer and guarantee that being accompanied by a family member would have prevented the police from chaining her up like a dog and leaving her unattended.

[andor3]

The point has been well made that police negligence caused this womans death, and reinforced by the great and absurd twists needed to try to argue against it.

Now people are actually trying to argue that a person who has a history of suicidal behavior or alcohol abuse should reasonably expect to be killed if he or she travels by air unaccompanied! Or that such a person is worthless so that her death can be thought of as excusable!

It''s not worth debating any more--try those arguments on the jury and I think we know who is going to be writing the big check.

[fitedafuture]

read bout police shooting a kid 20 times!! and you will agree more..

[fitedafuture]

POlICE BLEW IT,,great headline I agree...

[grammawhamma]

If she would have been accompanied by a friend or family member she would still be alive. The family is guilty in my opinion. (I wouldn''t be surprised if the husband has another woman he was secretly seeing.)