Comments on: Tape Shows Scuffle Before Airport Death

Carol Anne Gotbaum Resists Arrest, Behaves Erratically On Surveillance Video

[Krazcarl]

xenalily... you must have got your law degree on line or watch to much CSI yes you could probably make plea deal to lesser charges, if it makes you feel better it was accidental murder what do you call the likelyhood of strangling with your arm wraped around her neck to shut her up till she passed out and died I know involentary man slaughter.

[Krazcarl]

rudy645+civelcop...Ahh thanks for the voice of reason I was beginning to wonder if anyone saw the inconsistansies{?} but me.

[xenalily]

While I totally agree that time will reveal more facts and that this is a tragedy I want to point out one thing that is being brought up over and over- the word murder. MURDER REQUIRES PREMEDITATION! You seriously want us to believe that police officers would intentionally murder this woman? Wow- a lot of you are watching way too much tv. There''s no conspiracy here to rid the world of this woman by the police so get your semantics right at least if you are going to toss accusations at law enforcement. There is a huge difference between murder, manslaughter and negligent homicide. There is also no partisan issue here- it''s a case of how you would treat another human being and how this woman deserved to be accompanied by a loved one. And one more thing- this all took place in a very short amount of time- not like she was left in the holding cell for 10 minutes even let alone an hour or more as some of you suggest. I am not saying that the police weren''t negligent but get some perspective. If she had arrived just one minute earlier the doors wouldn''t have closed...if she would have waited 10 more minutes she would have been on her next flight (and maybe she would have freaked out there as well)...if she was checked on in the holding cell before the 6-8 minutes maybe she wouldn''t have choked herself. All of those variables contain some negligence on everyone''s part (including hers) and chance and that is why we invented the phrase "an unfortunate turn of events".

[azmka]

In todays local Phoenix paper there is an article that states certain body parts(head, neck and brain)were not allowed to be examined by the family''s own coroner.

What does that say? Sounds like someone is trying to hide something or why would they deny the examination of specific body parts? Especially these extremely important parts.

[susanhelit]

Were this my loved one, I would have been there for her. She would never have been flying alone.

Were this my loved one, and somehow she was flying alone, I wouldn''t blame the police for taking reasonable actions to try to bring her under control, nor because she suicided in their custody.

To be sure, I''d wish for a different outcome, but I wouldn''t blame those not at fault for failing to somehow, miraculously, detect her mental and addiction issues, and behave as doctors and psychiatrists as well as cops and then... I don''t know what - there''s no good solution here. Don''t shackle her, and she goes and rams her head into the wall. Watch her, and she fights you trying to keep her from hurting herself, and you end up hurting her and at fault for that.

All this is is 20/20 hindsight.

[krenz4]

Do you people really believe that instead of having officers that we have now, we should have a force of DR PHIL''s, standing around asking you "how you would feel about calming down, or if you are up to cooperating today?" If thats the case, every nutcase on the street should be considered a ''special medical case" worthy of the DR PHIL treatmnt from police! Besides that, maybe our tax dollars should pay for babysitters for all criminals so that we can get someone to escort them, sheild them from harm and sit with them in the holding cell so that they dont hurt themselves! It just makes me so angry that there are people out there who just will not face the fact that they are mad about this case, because of who she is, but had it been just joe blow, you same people would be proud of the cops, doing their job to the best of their ability and all. what a bunch of HYPOCRITES !

[susanhelit]

The police did not kill her. She killed herself. Possibly accidentally while going nuts in a cell, possibly deliberately due to suicide. Whichever, I see fault with the family if she was so unstable she should never have been left alone, anywhere. If not, if they''re just saying that to enable her to get away with lousy behavior again - again, enabling her is their fault. All and all, I just don''t buy any of the ideas that the officers were at fault. Checking every 15 minutes, on what appeared to be a normal drunk and disorderly - that''s fine.


The tapes show someone out of control, a very reasonable police reaction. Some here seem to think they went insane and started applying choke holds after behind closed doors - that''s a sad way to see the world, and unrealistic that 7 cops all stay silent about such a thing. There''s not a drop of evidence of that.

[civilcop-2009]

Wow, I have found this really interesting, but I can%u2019t take anymore pundits expounding on why this poor women is dead. All of you guys claiming the cops actions were proper, what if it were your loved one, would you not want a different result. For what ever reason she was in Arizona unaccompanied is irrelevant, she was there and know she is dead.
As a former cop, republican, somewhat conservative this is an example of a wrongful death at the hands of the police. Carol Gotbaum had a right to be treated differently, not expeditiously and officiously by inept police officers.
Last word; have fun Pundits who have no concept of police work, use of excessive force or causation.

[mennowoman]

Her husband PHONED the airport to tell them that his wife was ill. Why didn''t he GO to the airport WITH her and fly with her to the clinic? I have a mentally ill sister who threw a hissy at JFK last year, and the police were very nice, but they had to do their job of checking out who this lunatic was that was yelling and screaming. I was able to explain that she was worried about missing our flight and that she would be calm once we got to the gate. She managed to calm down enough to avoid arrest. We got on the plane and she doesn''t even remember the incident today. If I hadn''t been there with her, she would have most certainly been arrested. Mentally ill people need someone to accompany them on trips. Drunks are no different. They don''t have the ability to get themselves out of trouble.

[myidoncbs]

Some people will think or say ANYTHING, just so they can continue to believe in the lunatic fantasy the the COPS are the "good guys" (Always!) and anyone they harm must have "deserved it"!

What we deserve is better cops! We need cops who can tell the difference between a terrorist and a seriously depressed person! We need a population that has some sympathy for those who need a little extra help to get through their difficult lives.

We don''t need cops murdering every "crazy" person, or anyone else who "steps out of line". We don''t need people who are so heartless, or so stu-pid, or so e-vil that they can only condemn others for their weaknesses, rather than offer to help those in need.

[gilb7386]

*If she is on her way to treatment, than she needs to be accomplied all the way there. In the airport, on the plane and right to the facilities door. If she was showing positive signs of recovering...she would not be going to rehab. This is a sad situation...

[mennowoman]

No one should have to fly to a rehab hospital unaccompanied. What was her family thinking, having her do this all by herself? Why didn''t her husband, a cousin, a hired hand go with her? Did her family really care so little about her they didn''t care if she got there alone or not? I''m astonished that they didn''t think to take care of her, especially since people coming off a drunk and going to rehab are notoriously unstable and sometimes uncooperative. Shame on them for abandoning her when she needed them most!

[hologram5]

I am wondering if any of you clowns that are putting this woman and her family down have ever been an alcoholic or drug addict? this is a disease which inflicts depression. Yes the family should have handled it differently but the airport security is supposed to be trained to spot things like these. They are as much to blame as anybody. Unless you have been in this situation or have dealt with depression, alcoholism or addiction you should keep you petty and pitiful comments in your own tiny little mind. I have ten years clean and sober and have battled depression for many of those years. "sigh" idiots.

[civilcop-2009]

This is a first for me, the death of a 43-year-old mother of thee being attacked by so many experts. We really don%u2019t have all the evidence and experts are assuming fact not in evidence. I was a cop in South Central Los Angeles and arrested lots of real bad folks but what I have seen, read and heard about this death makes me glad I am not a cop today. Too many good people dieing at the hands of those we pay to protect us from harm. I will wait for all the evidence to be released, but this is a classic example of unreasonable tactics by improperly trained officers that resulted in this death.

[myidoncbs]

xenality, unable to comprehed the basic facts of the case, says, "It''s not like they knew her state of mind."

Now go back and read the words of Mr. Allard, the "experienced law enforcement leader, trainer and educator". He says:

"In this case, the context would indicate that there''s a medical crisis."

Given the facts reported in this story, even if it is determined that she killed herself, the cops that put her in handcuffs and abandoned her in the cell are guilty of NEGLIGENT HOMICIDE.

Anyone who thinks otherwise either does not understand what happened here, or they do not understand the law, or both.

That''s not just some "liberal whining". It''s the LAW!

[rudy654-2009]

"If she was so d*A*M*N* sick, why didnt her dear husband, or her well to do family hire someone to fly with her?"

Why don''t you wait to find out!!! Could it have been that she showed really good signs of improvement? Could it be that, because of airport security, her family wasn''t allowed to go beyond the checkpoint without a ticket in hand? Remember, one''s family used to be able to accompany you all the way to gate before 9/11. Now, they have to say goodbye to you from outside of security. There could be numerous reasons. However, there was no excuse for the inept and negligent treatment she received from law enforcement.

[Krazcarl]

YOU idiots she was headed to treatment not a psyk ward they wanted to show they trusted her why she went off the deep end when she missed the flight by 1 minute so sick of reading why wasn''t faimly with her if you want treatment you fully capable of making it alone unless in the thrall of DT''s she wasn''t.

[naragonl]

SharnCedar

How the heck did you figure out that all the posters
who were Ok with the police actions are ''right wingers''? Must be sad living with such a mind set.

I''m liberal, but also believe that the great majority of police and other versions of law enforcement are good people and do the right thing.

The people I hold responsible for this are the woman''s family for letting her travel alone. Especially the husband....shame on him!

Why the heck did she have to fly all the way to her rehab, don''t they have re-hab facilities on the east coast.

Not sure why Grandma Gotbaum couldn''t have watched the kids, or she could have accompanied her daughter to the rehab facility. Maybe they were too busy meddling in everyone else''s business back in NY and not doing the right thing by their sick daughter.

[naragonl]

SharnCedar

How the heck did you figure out that all the posters
who were Ok with the police actions are ''right wingers''? Must be sad living with such a mind set.

I''m liberal, but also believe that the great majority of police and other versions of law enforcement are good people and do the right thing.

The people I hold responsible for this are the woman''s family for letting her travel alone. Especially the husband....shame on him!

Why the heck did she have to fly all teh way to her rehab, don''t they have re-hab facilities on the east coast.

Not sure why Grandma Gotbaum couldn''t have watched the kids, or she could have accompanied her daughter to the rehab facility. Maybe they were too busy meddling in everyone else''s business back in NY and not doing the right thing by their sick daughter.

[rudy654-2009]

She obviously brought this on herself! Anybody with half a brain can see this! STOP making excuses for this nut job.
Posted by Luigi999 at 01:03 PM

What kind of excuses does your family make for you? I mean, you are a pathetic nut job, afterall. Maybe someone should help you to quit making excuses for the inept police officers.