Comments on: LAPD Chief Disturbed By Rally Violence

3 Investigations Launched Into Cops' Tactics At Immigration Rally

[capnboost]

"Once you break a law and you are arrested, and if you cannot show an identification card showing that you are here legally, then you should be deported."

Above quote Posted by krotec54 at 04:49 PM : May 03, 2007

Wrong. Presumption of innocence. If the prosecution cannot prove you're here illegally there is no crime. However, if/when the prosecution does find that you are here illegally you should be deported.

"I would rather see a the illegals injured or killed than a single innocent police officer harmed."

"The illegals are here illegally."

Above quotes Posted by lars008 at 04:56 PM : May 03, 2007

The citizens are here legally, and you cannot know who's legal and who is not just by looking them in the face... or where ever you happen to be hitting them with a stick.

"While I understand collateral harm is unfortunate, even this statement does not advance equality, and frankly is a dangerous paradigm to have."

Above quote Posted by WarrentsPls at 04:49 PM : May 03, 2007

The police do not sign up for equality, just like soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines don't. I don't expect a police officer to willfully give up his life. But i do expect them to risk harm before harming an innocent.

If there was clear and present danger of lethal or near lethal force from the mob i would be more compassionate. But, there wasn't- so, i'm not.

[lars008-2009]

I would rather see a police officer injured or killed than a single innocent harmed.

The police serve voluntarily.
Posted by capnboost at 04:38 PM : May 03, 2007

I would rather see a the illegals injured or killed than a single innocent police officer harmed.

The illegals are here illegally.

[krotec54]

Yes being on US soil makes one protected "equally" by the law and entitled to due process under it. Once you break a law and you are arrested, and if you cannot show an identification card showing that you are here legally, then you should be deported.

[warrentspls]

I would rather see a police officer injured or killed than a single innocent harmed.

The police serve voluntarily.
Posted by capnboost at 04:38 PM : May 03, 2007

We%u2019ll just have to agree to not resolve our ideological differences.

However, I am certain that I would not agree with this statement. While I understand collateral harm is unfortunate, even this statement does not advance equality, and frankly is a dangerous paradigm to have%u2026 not only for law enforcement, but those that law enforcement protects.

Mind you, no one is completely innocent in this situation. Law enforcement may have considered an alternate way of reacting, but those individuals whom were in harms way, were there because they failed to comply with law enforcement efficiently enough.

[lars008-2009]

Reporting Illegal Aliens: A Citizen Takes Up Arms For His Country

On Tuesday, September 23, I paid a visit to the Atlanta office of Immigration and Customs Enforcement [ICE]. My mission: to report the illegal aliens who had been featured on the front page of my local newspaper, the Marietta [Ga.] Daily Journal. [Immigrants faced peril in pursuit of better lives, August 24, 2003, By Beth Anderson]

In this 6-page (!) article, there were photos and quotes from three illegal aliens from Mexico. Two of them (Juan and Araceli Murillo, now of Austell Ga.- an Atlanta suburb) described the discomfort of their illegal journey across our borders (%u201Cit was too hot%u201D) and told the sympathetic Ms. Anderson how they were apprehended on the first attempt, deported, and then were successful on their second crossing.

The other illegal was one Jube Corona, who said he is a waiter at the El Ranchero restaurant in Marietta. Jube told Ms. Anderson that he has %u201Cno plans on leaving Cobb County.%u201D

The article mentioned nothing about the pesky fact that entering our country illegally - not once, but twice - is a federal crime. [Email a reminder to the Marietta Daily Journal%u2019s Beth Anderson.

As is employing those illegals.
http://www.vdare.com/king/citizen_takes_up_arms.htm

[capnboost]

@ WarrentsPls at 04:25 PM : May 03, 2007

It was tactically foolish for the police to push the agitators in to the peaceful crowd. The peaceful crowd should not have to suffer from their mistake. The extensive training that these particular police officers received should have prevented this in the first place.

The "threat" of a concealed weapon doesn't give the police the right to beat people.

Me thinking that the cashier at 7/11 might have a weapon doesn't give me the right to punch him in the mouth because he's not giving me my change fast enough.

If people couldn't keep up the police line should have moved slower.

Yes someone pretending and then attacking from behind could have caused a great deal of damage. Instead law enforcement caused a great deal of damage. Like they have in the past. Many times.

Non-compliance doesn't make you a criminal.

This may be my military experience/ family history talking but it's my opinion that those who serve- serve. I would rather see a police officer injured or killed than a single innocent harmed.

The police serve voluntarily.

[lars008-2009]

Posted by capnboost at 04:29 PM : May 03, 2007

is a mob lawyer...

[capnboost]

"capnboost. Citizen or not when the police give you an order, you either comply or suffer the consequences. What part of this do you not understand."

Above quote Posted by gunnerv1 at 03:47 PM : May 03, 2007

First off, it's "lawful order". I do not feel that i should have to comply with an unlawful order. The peaceful protesters were lawfully protesting. The agitators were messing with the police (who conveniently showed up to a peaceful protest in full riot gear). Instead of rounding up (arresting?) the agitators they pushed the agitators into the crowd, fired rubber bullets with reckless abandon and beat men women and children with batons. They yanked cameras away from the press and pushed them to the ground with everyone else.

They threw rocks and bottles. oh. my. God. rocks and bottles!? I tell you what, i'll dress up in riot gear and you get a truck load of rocks and bottles. You throw rocks and bottles at me and i'll try to subdue you w/o the assistance of a stick, grenade, or rubber bullets. we'll see who gets tired first. There was no threat that i'm aware of that warranted the use of non-lethals. (which actually have killed people...)

[frankinaz]

At this protest, the protesters, the police, and the City of Los Angeles are losers. The actions of both protesters and police have caused the public to dislike each side even more than ever before. Neither side of this controversial protest had to resort to violence, but both sides did, and now both sides will pay for their actions. Illegal immigrants already have enough legal citizens in this country that dislike them being here and protesting, and it was "Agitators" on their side that began provoking the police.
Then people in the crowd began throwing rocks and bottles at the police officers. The actions of this side of the protest will probably bring even less sympathy to their plight of illegal immigration.
On the other side, after the police told people to leave the area, the police used excessive force and brutality; two issues it has to face. Its a good thing they did not use lethal force, although rubber bullets could probably kill a person accidentally. The LAPD is still trying to clean up its image after the Rodney King incident over 16 years ago, so the public doesn't like their side, either.
So, at the end of this day in Los Angeles, the protesters, police and this city have all come out losers with some serious explaining to do-No one wins this kind of confrontation.

[warrentspls]

At the point where the people from the %u201Cviolent third party%u201D became assimilated into the %u201Cpeaceful%u201D crowd, everyone in the demonstration becomes a threat. Law enforcement are outnumbered, and the threat of an unknown concealed weapon is high. When an individual delays their dispersal, they become a threat to officer safety if they fall behind the police line.

Those individuals, whom delay their retreat and must be moved by the police, are no longer innocent, and their peacefulness is overshadowed by the possibility of a threat. Imagine the harm one individual could do to multiple police officers if they just lied on the ground until the police passed them, and then attacked them from behind.

Force is justified, if verbal and visual messages are not being complied with. The argument that the 14th amendment still sticks does not necessarily provide a warrant or a reason. And the following argument of force is negated by the fact that they no longer become innocent if they are not complying with police orders.

Just a thought from a holistic prospective.

[nimue10433]

It's always the George Soros lovers. This started out as a peaceful protest. It didn't stay that way when a police officer on a motorcycle got knocked down. That's when the rubber bullets flew, and the other side started to throw bottles and rocks. The police tell you to leave you leave file your complaints after. I don't have any pitty for law brakers, you don't assualt a police officer and expect them not to react. Good for the LAPD. The other thing people think everyone has all these rights, people can just walk in and do what they went and it's ok. Wrong we have laws which limit your rights. You don't follow the law you are arrested. Simple.

[mitywhity]

I think it was quite refreshing to see the police issue an order and then mete out the consequence of disobedience. They were blocking an arterial street. Ambulances, fire and police were being disrupted. Maybe from now on these thieves will think twice about causing disruptions. Besides, what harm is it to crack a few heads - they'll recover.

[nowhiteguilt]

YOU DAM ILLEGAL MEXICANS COMPLAIN ABOUT HOW AMERICAN TREAT YOUR A$$E$, JUST LIKE THE NEGROES DO EVEN AFTER 145 YEARS OF FREEDOM, NOW THEY'RE THE AMERICAN PRISON SYSTEM POPULATION MAJORITY.....WHO KNEW?
YOU MEXICANS TREAT THE SOUTH AMERICANS ILLEGALS WORST THAN ANY AMERICAN COULD LEGALLY TREAT YOUR A$$! I ADVISE EVERYONE TO VIEW THE DOCUMENTARY TITLED "*******", YOU'LL WITNESS THE TREATMENT THE MEXICAN GOVERNMENT, POLICE AND CITIZENS TREAT THE ILLEGAL SOUTH AMERICANS ENTERING THEIR F$$KED UP BACKWARDS COUNTRY, I CAN HONESTLY SEE WHY THE SPANIARDS FINALLY GAVE UP ON THAT SH*THOLE!

[capnboost]

"Anyway, It sounds like you are a well educated person and I'm sure that you can comprehend that the phrase and subject to the jurisdiction thereof indicates that there are some exceptions to the universal rule that birth on U.S. soil automatically grants citizenship."

I don't think that being on US soil makes one a citizen- quite the contrary. I do however believe that being on US soil makes one protected "equally" by the law and entitled to due process under it. Therefore regardless of weather they were US Citizens (most of them were) or illegal immigrants (most stayed home) they are entitled to equal protection. Thanks for the compliment. :)

Above quote Posted by krotec54 at 03:55 PM : May 03, 2007

[manzo75]

I was borned here in California.... but my family decendance is.... from here.. yep..
159 yrs ago all this land and its wealth was taken by force from Mexico (if we only hadn't found the first gold nuggets in our land)when the "manifest destiny" fever invaded the pilgrims(if we only hadn't found the first gold nuggets in our land). When I reached 20 I decided to move to Mexico to see if I could find a better place for me and the family I wanted to raise, but I found the same ***... In Mexico spanish decendants are so cruel to indigenist people and Mexico itself is submitted under USA's economical power which makes it even worse to live there... so I decided to come back hoping things might have changed a little.... unfortunately it got worse!. What's wrong with you people?... you are driven still by ambition and racism! Inmigrants .. especially mexicans are not comming here robbing killing and destroying generations of natives that had lived here for hundreds of years, they're comming here to work.. and look for a better chance in life just as the pilgrims did years ago.. the only difference is that we are not murdering and destroying. If you could only understan that there's still enogh for everyone.....
Why don't you get educated a bit.. maybe it'll refresh your minds.. if you are into educating yourself... http://www.houstonculture.org/hispanic/conquest.html here I leave you some info... so you'll remember....

[krotec54]

Nimue10433
Thank you.

[capnboost]

"All of these individuals received the protection under the law to protest, hence it took place. Unfortunately, when the police were met with violence and declared the demonstration an unlawful protest, the law at that point focuses on the dispersal of the demonstration."

The police were not met with violence from the peaceful protesters. There was a third party whom the police pushed into the demonstration. The police used greater than necessary force on innocent men, women, and children.

"They became unlawful citizens as soon as they delayed their dispersal as per law enforcement orders. Due process, as it is applied in the Constitution, is referring to Habeus Corpus, or the writ not to be arrested for an unpronounced amount of time. In this instance there were no arrests, and hence due process does not apply in this situation."

Delaying leaving an area is hardly grounds for rubber bullets, grenades, and batons. It is illegal for the police to beat innocent people.

"While it is nice to attempt to draw relevance from the constitution, a false analogy is being propagated by applying your rhetorical interpretation of the Constitution to this situation."

Well i'm terribly sorry. I believe however that the 14th amendment still sticks. Could you find me a precedent or law that permits law enforcement to beat peaceful people with sticks? Thanks for the educated rebuttal.

Above quotes Posted by WarrentsPls at 03:33 PM : May 03, 2007

[nimue10433]

I love it only CBS would leave out the pics of bottles and rocks being thrown at police or that a motorcycle police officer was knocked down by a protester that's how this whole thing started. God after all NBC NEWS managed to show both sides of the fence. They should the police using rubber bullets on protesters and they should protesters throwing bottles and rocks at police. Lets say it was a good day that those who where illegal didn't get deported that day, which they should have. The other story that CBS has done was about the poor children. Well, whose fault is that? Those who come here and brake our laws by crossing the border illegally. Little do we forget we have laws to protect everyone. Those who come here and those who live here. Notice who those who are crossing the border don't have their immunization shots, which puts every single american in danger. We have diseases showing up that we haven't seen in ages. I wasn't born in this country, came here legally, waited my turn, this isn't an immigration issue this is an issue of the law. Those who have no respect in the first place for it shouldn't be damanding anything. This isn't your home it's the home of the people who where born here and those of the ones who did what they needed to do legally to come here and be US citizens.

[krotec54]

capnboost,
I don't know why you misquoted me?

Anyway, It sounds like you are a well educated person and I'm sure that you can comprehend that the phrase and subject to the jurisdiction thereof indicates that there are some exceptions to the universal rule that birth on U.S. soil automatically grants citizenship. The following persons born in the United States are not considered "subject to the jurisdiction [of the United States]", and thus do not qualify for automatic citizenship under the Fourteenth Amendment:

Children born to foreign diplomats;
Children born to enemy forces in hostile occupation of the United States;
Children born to Native Americans who are members of tribes not taxed (these were later given full citizenship by the Indian Citizenship Act of 1924).
The following persons born in the United States are explicitly citizens:

Children born to US citizens;
Children born to aliens who are lawfully inside the United States (resident or visitor), with the intention of amicably interacting with its people and obeying its laws.

[gunnerv1]

capnboost. Citizen or not when the police give you an order, you either comply or suffer the consequences. What part of this do you not understand.