Comments on: NASA To Review Astronaut Screening Process

Space Agency Will Evaluate Its Psychological Screening Following Love Triangle Arrest

[prontopronto]

I scanned your post quickly before you write again, I'll try to get to the point in a few quick words. Blathering on about how I think women deserve preferential treatment is really off topic. I never said that. What I did say, and what I'll repeat is that historical and cultural rolesm, weighted in favour of men are probably at the root of the whole mess. If men were held accountable in the eyes of society and their fellow men for their behaviors, or let's expand that - if HUMAN BEINGS were held accountable for their actions in a bias free society where all people are equal...well, then there's a case for equality. To argue that sexism doesn't exist, or to argue that it may not be the cultural paradigm of men being rotten to women that might have motivated this scene from personal pain to public shame is to maybe lose some of the learning that can be done here. Maybe someone can explain to me why that's such a scarey thought. It's like saying that someone from the ghetto has the same opportunities as someone uptown. Guess so...on paper. But is it fair to exclude cultural variables and rooted perspectives from cause?
If you don't think things are different for men and women, and if you don't think that bad interpersonal behavior from men is excused...then you don't see.

[mnelsonix]

43 years old and losing weight? I think the Astronut is in menopause. Makes 'em crazy.

[jabberwock11]

"You go into any nightclub, military academy, male dominated profession or workplace and you'll see examples of sexism."

You mean like women get in free to nightculbs sometimes? If you are going to make points be specific. Saying "you'll see examples" does not further your argument.

"those cases were hard won battles"

Yet as you pointed out they were "won" battles.

"I'm just saying that she was probably sorely vexed by some mean spiritedness and that that mean spiritedness is endorsed as male privilege in our society."

No this is something you completely made up and is unsupported by anything in the news so far. Stating something eloquently does not make it true. For all we know she's an ****** and this type of thing runs in her personally and has nothing to do with men. If you want to argue that men have more opportunity than woman then feel free. However, as far as I can tell this case has NOTHING to do with your point and I dare you to provide evidence to the contrary.

[dogsoul]

...oh yeah - and you neglected to comment on how "well" Lisa Nowak treated her husband... ya forget about him did ya? Of course you did...

[dogsoul]

"Getting a nervous sexists to reveal their true colours and get all antsy and tense about their belief in the basic valuation of people"

I couldn't agree more, and you have thus far proven that point superbly. YOU are making generalized statement about men, and in fact blaming males at large for the behavior of an individual woman who committed a crime & quite probably intended on doing worse. You describe, "typical male behavior" and in fact, you stated quite clearly:

"..that everyone must be held to and judged by the same standard would mean that there is never any social progress."

So in order for their to be progress, we must NOT treat people equally - we MUST have different treatments depeding upon gender.

If that's not sexist - nothing IS...

Look - you are free to be as man-hating, man-blaming as you wanna be... but don't expect the rest of us to buy into your hypocrisy that is so beyond apparent it boggles the imagination.

[prontopronto]

Dogsoul gets downright nasty and accuses me of being a 'bigot' for pointing out that Nowak probably got treated badly by a man who lives in a society that doesn't treat men and women equally. Words matter - and bigot defined as - a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion, would apply more to himself than to I.
Yes, it's a misadventure. And it's a sad and tragic misadventure at that. This woman blew her life to hell, frightened other people and will be brought to justice. But let's not start lynching her before she's tried and convicted.
No. Let's hang on to our tempers and see that justice should always be tempered with mercy...and that as mercy would allow...this is a different world for women than it is for men. Try to keep an open mind - there's a lot of historical evidence that points to this inequity.

[jabberwock11]

"Its STILL the top story"

because people are STILL interested in it. If you aren't interested no one is forcing you to read about it.

[prontopronto]

Getting a nervous sexists to reveal their true colours and get all antsy and tense about their belief in the basic valuation of people. Men, worth more. Women, worth less.
You go into any nightclub, military academy, male dominated profession or workplace and you'll see examples of sexism.
The old "equality" argument - that everyone must be held to and judged by the same standard would mean that there is never any social progress. There must be accomodations made for the historical and personal circumstances that led to this crime - and some of those are social and cultural circumstance. People make excuses for 'typical' male behavior and have been doing so for a long, long time. The military itself, where Nowak cut her professional teeth, has had a multitude of cases of sexual harassment and those cases were hard won battles against an entrenched view that men are better than women. This is a boring argument.
Look, no one is suggesting she not pay the price for her crime...I'm just saying that she was probably sorely vexed by some mean spiritedness and that that mean spiritedness is endorsed as male privilege in our society. It's tiresome when someone argues that the world is flat...and anyone who argues that this world isn't a man's world...well, he's arguing that.

[jabberwock11]

"They pick crops for themselves not the nation."

That's no different from saying astronauts go to space for themselves not the nation. Most people get paid for their job.

[dogsoul]

Oh please, YOU'RE the one who seems quite comfortable labeling this assault & possibly more grisly intent as a "misadventure". Ya think if a guy had pulled this stunt anyone would be sitting around saying, "boys will be boys"? You seem to suggest that men don't treat women well because they're macho sexist brutes... and you feel entirely comfortable making such a sexist bigoted statement about men in general - here's a lesson for ya, that's called hypocrisy. BTW - you're forgetting another guy in this scenerio, her HUSBAND - now, pray tell, just how respectful WAS she to him while she was pining away for another man??? You say society endorses men being schmucks to women??? I dunno - everywhere I look it seems those guys are portryaed as... well, schmucks - on the other hand I see women having affairs & protraying men as weak, mindless louts all the time. But I'm not about to blame women for my problems, and certainly not my behavior... that kind of sexism is best left to people such as yourself.

[talkingham]

They pick crops for themselves not the nation. It's a job that will soon be performed by fossil fuel gobbling robotic machines hooray!

[valendug]

Hope Flash Gordon uses condoms!

[jabberwock11]

"Society endorses men being schmucks to women. If you can find evidence that it doesn't...I'd like to see it."

You are making the claim. Show us evidence that it does first.

[johnqpublic8]

"Top stories are what people are interested in"
How can you help seeing it..Its STILL the top story.

[jabberwock11]

"I can't believe an astronaut gone awry is the continuing "Top Story""

Top stories are what people are interested in. The fact that you are posting here, shows you have some level of interest yourself. While this story does not have world impact it is strange enough to get people interested.

[johnqpublic8]

I can't believe an astronaut gone awry is the continuing "Top Story" not just on CBSNews but on all the news services ! Are the news services providing news or trashy hot stories? File it and move on.

[rafterman1]

"...and yet somehow you managed to pull George Bush into this..."

I actually found one thing I like about Bush, his commitment to space exploration. See? Bush haters don't think all bad of the big W.

[prontopronto]

Dogsoul,
Men aren't at fault per se, but a social structure that endorses male supremacy and explains away *** behavior as "boys will be boys" etc, might be the foundation of the likely garden variety mean-spirited and selfish behavior that led to this misadventure. Nowak isn't going to be judged any easier because she's female - she's in for some backlash from whips like you who think it's high time women - especially highly successful women like Nowak - start living by the same rules and regs that men have. What I'm saying is that men DON'T have to be civil or behave ethically to women PRIVATE because they're macho nonsense is accepted in PUBLIC. Here's a great opportunity for Nowak to take the Public hit for what was a Private up side of head. She's going to pay - you betcha - because our sexist society endorses the macho usery that probably led to her outrage. No one's suggesting she not get her commupance - but maybe we could all learn a little something from this. Maybe playing fast and loose with people's feelings is wrong. But we need the details on the case to make that judgement. It's all in the details. Society endorses men being schmucks to women. If you can find evidence that it doesn't...I'd like to see it.

[jabberwock11]

"The "poor" do nothing for the economy or the nation other than make it poorer."

They pick crops.

[dogsoul]

"I am really not going to respond to those of you attempting to compare this specific situation to anything else."

"My opinion will not change nor will I be drawn into ridiculous, irrelevant arguments about unrelated matters, especially hypothetical "what if" scenarios."

...and yet somehow you managed to pull George Bush into this...

amazing