Comments on: Disgraced Minister Begins 'Restoration'

Rehab After 'Sexual Immorality' Confession Could Take Years

[faithcox1]

I have read all the comments on this subject and I have to say you all have valid points. However, the bible teaches that sin is sin no matter what it is. Lying, homosexuality, etc... are all sins in the eyes of God. God did judge Sodom and Gomorrah because of all their sins and not just one sin. I agree that we as Christians are not to cast stones because we ourselves are without sin. Our main mission as Christians is to bring people to saving knowledge of Jesus Christ and let the Holy Spirit convict those who are saved of their sins. We are not to judge them because we are nobody's who are here to tell everybody about Somebody (Jesus) who can save everybody and that is as plain as I can put it for those of you who are not Christians reading this blog. I do not condemn people for the choices they make and I love all people just as Christ did. Rev. Haggard is no different.

[smasterb]

alinok32 and markbrookhar,

Well said

Bigdmm,
Devout Christian ... Not hardly

Firmly believe in interconnectedness and spiritual existence, and every breath I take affects the whole ...absolutely!

Display cowardice at times in my life... certainly. Just try my BEST not to self-justify it.

[yborangel]

"I see success approximately 50 percent of the time," said H.B. London, vice president for church and clergy at Focus on the Family said those who fail "end up selling cars or shoes or something, and being miserable and angry the rest of their lives."

As a car salesman, I demand an apology! Hey, the same santimonious crowd demanded an apology of Kerry for a botched joke! I don't this this was meant as a joke.

It's the cavalier attitude of "do as we say not as we DO" that makes many people so frustrated with christians (lower case intended for the less than real thing). Some of us (Christians) have higher standards. Even if we are selling cars...

[persephone3]

smasterb said:
Life is all about %u201CME%u201D, right? I get to make whatever choices I want to and not be responsible for the consequences. All I have to do is hide like a coward behind the word freedom.

Everyone faces consequences for actions that they take that harm other people. Ted Haggard's sin was not his weakness, it was dishonesty to himself, to his family and to his congregation. He's gay. If he wasn't, then he would have conducted his illicit affair with a woman. He lives a lie and it's his family that suffers for it. I understand that his Christian teachings tell him that commiting homosexual acts is sinful---so instead of lying to himself about what he was, he should have stayed single and celibate. Instead, he married and had children and now they are paying the price for his choice in doing so. Tell me---was that the decent thing to do?

As for people crowing over his disgrace, well it's not pretty, I guess, but when someone holds themselves up as some kind of moral leader, they have quite a bit further to fall than your average joe.

[kosh69]

Continuation...
Second, nearly every person in this country has commited a sexual immoral act at one time in their life. According to the bible, adultry, fornication and masturbation are all considered sins. And, according to the Catholic church, divorce, abortion and contraceptive use are also sins. This covers most of the people in this country. People have a tendency to judge others on issues of immorality, but turn a blind eye to their own immorality. It would be very hard for most people to live life without engaging in the fore-mentioned acts. It would be wrong to only lend support to those who can only live by the high and strict moral codes of the evangelical church. According to them, most of America is going to burn in hell. But I am reminded of one lesson I learned in bible school: We are all sinners and one sin is just as bad as another in the eyes of God. Because some people don't achieve the high moral standards of the Evangelical church doesn't mean that they are not deserving of support and sympathy. Clearly, Rev Haggard has a long road ahead of him. Would it be too much to ask that Rev Haggard find his own path and leave the judgements to God?

[persephone3]

smasterb said:
"I agree let him be gay and at the same time we should allow pedophilia, murder, polygamy, theft, extortion, incest, and any other act people may CHOOSE to engage in, go unquestioned. Those who engage in any of these acts are just being themselves after all."

You've got a lot of nerve equating someone's sexuality with crimes that destroy the lives of the victims. My relationship with my partner does no harm to anyone; we live quite lives and mind our business. We get along with our neighbors and they get along with us. How does this compare with murder? Your thinking is dangerously skewed.

smasterb said:
"Christians are so evil, trying to promote decency in our society."

Christians, like anyone else, are not all of a piece; most intelligent people understand that. With that said, there is something you should consider-- not everyone in this country is a Christian and not everyone believes in the tenets that you believe in. This in no way means that non-Christians are not subject to the laws of the country, nor does it mean that non-Christians do not live by a moral code. To purport that only Christians are decent people is false.

[kosh69]

I am not going to comment on the Rev Haggard hypocrisy ( That is self evident ). What I will talk about is the reaction of some of Rev Haggard's friends, family and congregation. A lot of people said that they will stand by the reverend and support him. But there is a caveat to their support. They expect the reverend to stop engaging in homosexuality and seek treatment for his " sexual immorality ".
First, the so called conversion therapy or " Restoration " therapy simple do not work for most ***. The statement from H.B. London, vice president for church and clergy at Focus on the Family, points out that the sucess rate of this program is 50%. And of the 50% who have graduated from this program, how many of these people continue to sneak around in the darkness to have gay *** in the shadows. These programs only piles more guilt on a person whose natural desires are directed to members of the same ***. Many people who commit to these conversion therapy either wind up suffering a nervous breakdown or possible suicide. Many *** go through several stages in their life: Denial, self-hatred or self-loathing, guilt/shame/depression, reluctant acceptance of one's sexuality and then ,finally, full acceptance. Clearly Rev Haggard is stuck in the first two stages. By attending this program, he will experience the third stage, guilt/shame/depression. Hopefully, Rev Haggard will survive this stage and move onward to accept his true sexaulity.
Continued...

[alinok32]

Part 5:
Ok, I lied. Part 4 wasn't the last one. Please forgive me!

SmasterB, seems you have your head on right regarless of any dents! LOL!

Bigdmm, don't think so highly of yourself or your strength and mental capacity! It may seem like wisdom, but will lead you to ruin. (wow! that sounds like a Proverb--read that book buddy!) Your presumption that we can find Truth for ourselves, much less right from wrong is absurd. Just like your idea that religion is used to control the masses (for the most part). Ummmm, yeah. I suppose you think heaven and hell are fictious as well? Just answer me this: what if you are wrong? My position that the Bible is God-inspired, relevant to my life, and true does not hurt me if I am wrong. I'll just cease to exist, come back as a dog, or float in Nirvana. But if you are wrong, and you reject Jesus as Savior of your life, the Bible says that you will be in Hell. Do you really want to wait and find out you are wrong then???

Another bid idea from John 8: Jesus ignored the foolishness of the town's religious leaders! He drew in the sand. I am expecting some foolish responses to this, so watch me draw in the sand while I read them! ;-)

[nascar7gal]

I am amazed at the range of comments regarding Ted & what he did or didn't do. I would hazard a guess that most of you do not know Ted, have never met him, and don't know anything about him other than what they have read or heard on the news. He has always been a very kind & generous person, with a huge heart and willingness to help others. He has a great sense of humor and would go out of his way to make sure he did not hurt or offend another person. Whether or not he did what he is accused of is irrelevant; it does not change the person he is or the fact that he has devoted his life to God and serving others. I would suggest that we all look in the mirror and think about the things we have done in our life and how others would react towards us if even one small thing we were embarassed about or which we hadn't done was made public. You should all be ashamed of yourselves and ask God for being so hypocritical.

[markbrookhar]

Ted Haggard did a disgraceful and sinful thing. He violated the trust of his wife, and of his church and was unfaithful to both. But the difference between him and EVERYONE else, is- his sin was exposed, while most people's sin is still hidden. The Bible says- "all have sinned and fallen short....." Before you judge him too harshly, consider.... what have you done, you don't want made public?

Highly successful individuals in the public are fueled by risk-taking behavior, secular or sacred, and this is what makes them both successful and succeptable to moral failure. We also do not know what stressors he has been under or even how intently the devil has been after him to destroy him. I guess it was too much for him, and he made a horrible choice. As for me, Christ teaches me to forgive, so I will. I would hate to have to walk in his shoes.