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vielmann says:
Let me tell you what that flag represents: hate and murder. People seem to conveniently forget that an awful lot of young men were FORCED to fight under it. If they refused, they and their wives were likely to be hung or shot. Millions of those boys lost their lives defending the rights of the rich to own slaves. When they died, most of them didn't have one penny to their name to leave their kids or wives back home. That's what that piece of crapp flag represents.
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midvale3 replies:
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Careful, your going to destroy the romantic idea that people have about the gallant boys in grey...naw, reality doesn't faze the true Southerner. Look how they keep right on supporting the rich against their own self interest.
buckn replies:
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Well, that is what it means to YOU, anyway.
ConnieChastain replies:
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vielmann, please cite a source for wives being killed if their husbands refused to fight? If you know this is a lie, that makes you a deliberate liar, and if you believe it, that makes you a dupe. There were more people killed in the Civil War (on both sides) than in all other U.S. wars combined -- however, millions were not killed. The count is between 600,000 and 700,000. So in the space of four sentences, you've either told two whoppers, or you've made yourself look like a dunce.
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vielmann says:
Just more proof that the tea party is just a faction of the klan.
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WeHappyFew says:
Tell you what I think the reason for the abolitionist movement. The transatlantic slave trade was banned by law, the North needed many more workers for the industrializtion. The South had a huge resource of (bonded) workers. The South saw the North as saying, in effect, 'release your workers to us or face the consequences.'
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midvale3 replies:
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(bonded) workers.

Not only is your conclusion stupid but to call slaves "bonded" workers is so ignorant I'm surprised you're able to use a computer.
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WeHappyFew says:
General Lee on Slavery,
"There are few, I believe, in this enlightened age,who, that slavery as an institution is a moral and political evil. It is idle to expatiate on its disadvantages".

That's the bit that his fans like to quote. He continues on slavery....

"I think it is a greater evil to the white than to the colored race. While my feelings are strongly enlisted on behalf of the the latter, my sympathies are more deeply engaged with the former. The blacks are immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, physically, and socially. The painful discipline they are undergoing is necessary for their further instruction as a race and will prepare them, I hope, for better things."

What a nice man.
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WeHappyFew replies:
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I've managed to miss out "will not acknowledge" from the first line.
WeHappyFew replies:
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No, Mortarman, not so.

"The painful discipline they are undergoing is necessary to further their instruction as a race."
He wasn't talking about black slaves in America. HHe was talking about Africans. He believed that the blacks were better off being slaves in America than free in Africa never having seen America.


Also I love this point about the benefit of hindsight 100 years later. You seem to be admitting,
at last, that conserving the status quo is not always a good thing and progressive thought has some material improvement to society. It's a good thing libs have foresight.

It's gone One o'clock here, Goodnight.
WeHappyFew replies:
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Love the way people remove their comments when they have no argument.

My syntax above, not so great.

General lee is basically saying what we are doing to slaves is better than leaving them native Africans. The line" the painful discipline they are undergoing is necessary to the further instruction of their race". So he is talking about black slaves but not that they were badly behaved slaves per se but that they were AFRICANS and had to be 'humanized' by Europeans.That in their native state could not be classed as fully evolved societies.
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Zann-Zel says:
Mortar: As I said, I am a Virginian. If you march an Army into my state, I WILL shoot you.
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LOL! I know that's not supposed to be funny! But it struck me as hilarious!
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1pheasant1 says:
by Zann-Zel September 2, 2011 5:41 PM EDT

What he did is not ANYTHING like what the Confederate soldiers did while defending their homes!!!

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What he did was just as sick as what the Confederate soldier was defending; the right to own and enslave another human being.
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Zann-Zel replies:
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One comment down from this one - See elliesamericana's comment and Read it ALL - with an Open mind!!!
1pheasant1 replies:
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Take your version to the Texas Board of Education, Mort. I'm sure they will be happy to omit any reference to the enslavement practices that were being defended.
michaelz06 replies:
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TO equate the two across the board for all who took up arms on the Confederate side is beyond ludicrous, but somehow I doubt anyone here will persuade you of that. So please go off and be happy in ignorant bliss.
Zann-Zel replies:
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I don't know where you went to school pheasant but I learned all that in an 8th grade history class IN Texas!
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elliesamericana says:
As someone who has both Confederate and Union Soldier lineage, I find it sad that the old battle flag raises such controversy. The battle flag was only the Army flag, not the national flag of the country. Over one million soldiers served under it during four years of war. While the Confederacy may have stood for slavery, the soldiers in the Army largely did not as ~95% of the soldiers did not own slaves. They fought in defense of home, country, and regional pride. Evidence of this is found in the actual writings of the soldiers. Had slavery been the main issue for them, they would not have endured the extreme hardships of the war. The problem now is that we try to place 21st century mindset on a 19th century war and that various hate groups stole the battle flag to misuse it for evil purpose. I think my best insight into the Confederate Soldier mind was written by one who survived the Battle of Bentonville in last ditch effort to defeat Sherman in 1865, "Even at this late stage in the war, few knew the end was so near. We were blinded by out patriotism." While we decry what the battle flag has become, we forget what it was, and it represents patriotic American Soldiers who also fought for their country, not modern day racists whom they would have abhored. I do find it remarkable that blacks also served under the flag. Pension records show >2,800 black Confederate Soldiers received pensions granted in the 1920s. This is a reminder that this flag comes from a different time when America was a very different country and we should not infer our modern ills on it. Respectfully, retired US Army Medical Officer.
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Zann-Zel replies:
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A voice of reason! : )
michaelz06 replies:
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I am applauding as well. Very well said,
WeHappyFew replies:
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Yes but the swastika was only a flag too and why are only black people at the exclusion of everyone else allowed to be offended by the battle flag of the confederacy?


Don't get me wrong. I say I'm fine with all flags. Come one. come all.
1pheasant1 replies:
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That makes me feel so warm and fuzzy. Somebody please send me a white hood and a cross to burn. I want to share this feeling with all Americans. White. Black. North. South.
I am really impressed with the "various hate groups stole the battle flag to misuse it for evil purpose" excuse.
Zann-Zel replies:
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Pheasant obviously you don't get it.
But see that's what America is about, you don't have to understand and agree with what everone else thinks, to respect their right to think differently from you!
vielmann replies:
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What a damm stretch to say that those confederates would have abhorred racism. Bullscheiss to that nonsense. May the confederate flag lay with the trash heaps of history.
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WeHappyFew says:
Only the guy in the cargo shorts has a Confederate flag the others have Confederate jacks.
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1pheasant1 says:
What next? Are burning crosses and white hoods meant to be warm and fuzzy symbols of the South that should be displayed at all government buildings? Better yet, let us just use rifle scope crosshairs as symbols of opposition to those we wish to oppress.
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Zann-Zel replies:
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You are missing the point.
If you are coming from a Liberal perspective - try to remember the openmindedness!
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1pheasant1 says:
by Zann-Zel September 2, 2011 5:09 PM EDT

No one is defending that right pheasant.

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Indeed they are, Zann.
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Zann-Zel replies:
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No they aren't. They are defending the right to be proud of their heritage. Proud of their ancestors who stood up to defend their homes and families and their way of life at the time. And that flag doesn't just say "Civil War" to us...it says THE SOUTH....which to US is a very special place - its Home!

THink of it this way - Home...that has your family - ALL your family. ARe there a few in your family that have done things you might not be so proud of? - but they're still your family, and its still your home.
1pheasant1 replies:
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Sure! A little lady in the suburban town of Littleton, Co. is wearing a tee-shirt that reads, "Proud parent of Dylan Klebold."
Zann-Zel replies:
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What he did is not ANYTHING like what the Confederate soldiers did while defending their homes!!!
Zann-Zel replies:
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Thats not possible!!! Liberals are supposed to be Open Minded Individuals! We need a Liberal meeting people!
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