Comments on: Family Seeks Justice In Taser Death

Death Of Missouri Man Again Raises Questions About Whether Tasers Are A Safe Law Enforcement Tool

[lf1952]

Another likely example of poor police work (although we weren't there). Unless a 79 year old was armed with a weapon, I cannot imagine a situation justifying the use of potentially lethal force (i.e. Taser). As I said earlier - Taser is NOT in the same class as Pepper spray - and frankly, any police office who used pepper spray on a 79yo would/should be the laughing stock of his/her department anyway.

[lf1952]

I agree...if that information is correct...this would be an example of some of the worst of the worst behavior.

[beeker252]

Too far often that the police use the taser as a tool of compliance in order to force detainee to comply quickly or they will be used. Recently, a police officer who seems to be very big shot a 79 year old grandmother when she refuse to listen to his command. Now does that sound like a big violent suspect resisting arrest? I don't think so.
It should be a last resort option just like a firearm rather than a first option. Sadly many of the officers are on a power trip when having such authority to issue commands and the law back them up.

[lf1952]

Another likely example of poor police work (although we weren't there). Unless a 79 year old was armed with a weapon, I cannot imagine a situation justifying the use of potentially lethal force (i.e. Taser). As I said earlier - Taser is NOT in the same class as Pepper spray - and frankly, any police office who used pepper spray on a 79yo would/should be the laughing stock of his/her department anyway.

[dancingmoon]

This stinks to high heaven!

What I wonder is why the officer felt a need to call for backup as there is already another officer at the scene visible in the video.

If, as stated in this article, the officer(s) later claimed that Harlan was speeding where's the documentation of that? Wouldn't the officer(s) have wanted to preserve that information to corroborate their claims he was speeding? Since Harlan was dead when removed from the scene surely they realized there might be questions.

I found several news reports stating that in November, Randolph County Coroner Gerald Luntsford conducted an autopsy and ruled Harlan?s death was a homicide.

KOMU.com reported on May 4 2009 that they had researched hundreds of pages of documents and found a document that shows officer J.J. Baird shot Harlan with his taser three times, once for 21 seconds, another for seven seconds, and finally one more for three seconds although Baird had denied he tasered Harlan that many times or for that long of an interval. The data was analyzed by an employee of the taser company who said there was no possibility for a "ghost" or false reading.

KOMU also reported that although Officer Gary Breyfogle and Officer Jared Dotson initially claimed they had to subdue a violent Harlan they then both stated said in the deposition the suspect never became violent. Both also admitted to destroying initial records of the incident before they turned in an official police report on September 4th.

There are also some unverifiable allegations found at various pages on the net that an unnamed officer was dating Harlan's ex-girlfriend, the mother of his child, and Harlan had been harassed by members of the PD several times in the weeks leading up to his death.

Seems to me that the City settled rather quickly, less than a year later, and for a pretty substantial amount rather than let this get to a jury.

[lf1952]

I agree...if that information is correct...this would be an example of some of the worst of the worst behavior.

[lf1952]

There is not doubt that there are bad cops. True in ANY profession.

They are, however, thankfully rare, and police officers with Bachelor's and Master's degrees are becoming more common. If we paid them better, might improve things more. How much is someone trusted and required to use lethal force worth???????

That said - given a bad, stupid police officer with poor judgment - would you prefer to have a Taser misused, or a gun?

You only hear about inadvertent deaths due to Tasers - how many times IS it used appropriately where the alternative is a shoot someone? How many shootings could have been prevented if more officers carried them?
I can't find that data. One would think the makers of Taser would publish it all over.

[fred-mertz]

A cop is someone WE CAN NOT AFFORD to let be bad. A bad hairdresser? Market forces will push him/her out of the trade. But bad cops are REWARDED for their evil. They are congratulated for "getting the bad guys off the street". They don't care HOW they do it. They are OUT OF CONTROL.

Ever since the "war on terror", cities and towns across the USA have been hiring untreated PTSD victims of Bush and Cheney's war on Iraq as cops. They see everyone and everything as a "threat". They dehumanized the "ragheads" in Iraq, making them easy to kill without conscience. They dehumanize US CITIZENS by calling them "perps" and "criminals" (before any conviction). Then they have NO REGARD for the human being they are trying to "control". They probably think they are being saints when they use a taser instead of a gun. But, far too often, the result is the same.

There is no telling when they will flip out and who will be the next target. Do you remember the ambulence stopped by a cop a couple of days ago? The cop THOUGHT the driver made an "obscene gesture" at him (AS IF that is something worth paying any attention to!), so he pulled over an ambulence that was on an emergency call, transporting a woman with a possible heart attack to the hospital. When the EMT got out of the back of the ambulence, that cop yelled at him, wouldn't listen to him (or to the woman's relatives, either!). The cop smashed the EMT up against the ambulence, and choked the air out of him, screaming all the while. Later, that cop said he did "nothing wrong", and so did his boss!

Too dammmm many cops are simply OUT OF CONTROL. They are just as dangerous, if not more so, due their cover of authority, than criminals. Most criminals just want your money or your stuff. Cops want to control you, to make you obey their every whim. And when they don't get what they want... WATCH OUT!!!

And, who's supervising them, making sure they don't do wrong? MORE COPS with the same attitude problem! It's the fox guarding the hen house, and we are the helpless chickens.

[lf1952]

There is not doubt that there are bad cops. True in ANY profession.

They are, however, thankfully rare, and police officers with Bachelor's and Master's degrees are becoming more common. If we paid them better, might improve things more. How much is someone trusted and required to use lethal force worth???????

That said - given a bad, stupid police officer with poor judgment - would you prefer to have a Taser misused, or a gun?

You only hear about inadvertent deaths due to Tasers - how many times IS it used appropriately where the alternative is a shoot someone? How many shootings could have been prevented if more officers carried them?
I can't find that data. One would think the makers of Taser would publish it all over.

[nextgenman09]

The problem is not so much the Tazer as it is the low educated, "looking for something to make my wang bigger" freaks who want to be cops these days. Cops are the problem, not necessarily the Tazer.

I mean jeez, a cop Tazered a 70-year-old Grandma recently. I'll be she was a major danger to the public....

[lf1952]

Drugs used for animal tranquilizers (1) do NOT provide "immediate" take down and (2) are probably MORE likely to be dangerous than a Taser ever was.

[lf1952]

If the Taser people are truly saying that because the current is from electrode to electrode it won't affect the heart - THAT IS SCARY. Think about it - if muscles other than between the electrodes are affected, then so is the heart (potentially). Particularly if the bad guy is on the ground or in bare feet, then some of he current is VERY likely to go to that ground and thus DIRECTLY through the heart as well.

Yes, I understand a baton CAN be lethal - but very unlikely. To casually to say a Taser is in the same class as pepper spray validates the REAL need for better training that, frankly, I had truly believed was unnecessary!!!

[lemonskinkus]

Police should be equipped with tranquilizer dart guns when realizing they have pushed someone to far as often is the case. We do not torture.

[1notrub11]

Fine as an alternative in selected cases. However, this may not work fast enough in either all or some circumstances, dependent on dose - then an alternative will have to also be chose in some of the situations. All split second. And you will find that a very small number of cases, will die for no immediately identifiable reasons in the use of tranquilizers.

[lemonskinkus]

We do not torture.

[suzerain4]

Tasers are considered "less lethal" force in most agencies. The application of the Taser falls into the "intermediate force" category, which basically equates to more than talking, but less than the pistol.

Usually, if an officer is justified in using pepper spray or baton against a subject, he can use a Taser. Each agency has different rules, so this may vary. Tasers are designed to incapacitate a subject by pain compliance and motor dysfunction. Which basically means it hurts a whole heck of a lot, and causes muscles between the probes and at roughly skin level to stop working. The electrical charge travels between the probes, not throughout the body. It will not effect the heart. Stress and overexertion, combined with existing medical conditions or substance abuse or both might contribute to a catastrophic heart condition. The Taser will not cause the heart to stop on its' own.

Officers receive training in the capabilities and appropriate application of the Taser before they can be used by an individual officer.

This article says the subject received three "cycles" or 31 seconds worth electric jolt. This is false. Tasers are designed to administer 5 seconds of electricity per cycle. If the subject in this story received 31 seconds, he received more than 6 cycles. I was not there and don't know what the truth is.

However, most, if not all agencies limit the cycles by policy to no more than 2 or 3. Why? Because if the Taser has not worked by then, it is considered ineffective force. Meaning is did not obtain the desired result. In which case, the officer would utilize another force option, including possibly deadly force.

Every unintended death is regrettable. Keep in mind that officers do not know medical or substance abuse history of noncompliant subjects. Tasers have proven to be effective tools to gain and maintain control of uncooperative subjects. When a Taser cycle is over, it's over. In most cases, except for the ones we read about from time to time, there are no long term ill effects. In fact, within minutes, even seconds most people recover completely, albiet with a newly gained, and profound respect for the power of electricity. It hurts the normal, sober person that much.

If you agree to accept that, it is clear why law enforcement would prefer to use a Taser versus other intermediate force such as nunchukas, expandable batons, PR24s, and pepperspray. We've all seen video of officers beating the snot out of people, and none of us like it.

There are some bad apple police out there, but by and large, officers do not want to use force. Each officer I know wants to go home to his family at night. Each time an officer must lay hands on someone it increases his risk of injury, and the risk of ij=njury to the subject. And no officer is paid enough to forgo his own safety and future by knuckling up with each and every person that they have to arrest. Tasers can protect the public in the hands of good officers. Officers trust them as a valuable tool that can help them go home to their families.

If a Taser is misused the officers should be punished. If someone dies while in police custody, it can be a tragedy that effects family, the public and the officers involved. My best advice to those confronted by police, and suspected of criminal activity is to do what the officers tell you. If the officer is wrong in the end, it will come out. You won't win by non-compliance.

[pikerock123]

In this case, the allegation is that the officer held the trigger down on the taser for 21 seconds, then 7 seconds, then 3 seconds. Its my understanding that the taser can be deployed for longer than 5 seconds if you hold the trigger down.

[lf1952]

Tasers are NOT "safe" in the sense of guaranteed non-lethal.
SO WHAT? Is shooting the guy a better idea?

If the option is shooting someone or using the Taser, the Taser is VERY UNliklely to be lethal, the bullet IS likely to be fatal.
Every police officer is NOT Chuck Norris. Every police officer must deal with big people, often with little to lose, often on drugs and sometimes with martial arts skills. These folks are perfectly capable of (1) beating police office to pulp and (2) taking HIS/HER gun. So those who don't want Tasers used feel the guy resisting arrest SHOULD BE SHOT??? That providing a likely non-lethal alternative is a BAD idea?
Neither seem acceptable to me!

If you have never dealt with a someone high on crack and resisting arrest (or even medical care) you just don't understand the situation. There is NO reasoning with them, there is no "overwhelming force" (which often isn't even an option - flatly no available - police office vs bad guy by themselves). HOWEVER, we see YOUNG non-violent people in the ER every day with heart attacks from cocaine. Now add violence and a police officer who elects to try (likely) non-lethal force and guess what - they have their heart attack right them and THAT is what kills them (and almost impossible to prove at autopsy - if a patient dies immediately of the heart attack due to arrhythmia (common) VERY heard to prove they actually had the heart attack).

Have officers misused Tasers? Absolutely! Should they be accountable - Absolutely! However, MOST do not and if used as a likely non-lethal alternative to the use of deadly force, USE OF THE TASER SHOULD BE REQUIRED unless the risk requires immediate use of deadly force.

[ronjjj157]

This post says everything that I wanted to say.

[pikerock123]

The problem with this comment and those like them is that it sets up a false dichotomy. In other words, there are more than two choices out there. Its not simply shoot someone with a gun or taser them. In fact, I think that tasers should be used only where an officer's or another person's life is in danger (like a gun). Instead, tasers have been utilized because handcuffed suspects are mouthing off or, like in this case, when a citizen is asking why he is being arrested. There are other options available. 4 officers, two police dogs and one kid (not on cocaine or pcp) who they couldn't arrest without tasing him death.

[kenhamlett]

It is amazing how the various factions rationalize the use of tazers. They have repeatedly caused deaths but somehow the claim remains that the voltage is insufficient to cause deaths. Thus reality says they lie.
The cops like to inflict trauma to feed their pathetic egos. It also apparently causes amnesia in the operator since they have had instructions limiting their use but they fail to recall the instructions. Thus training will not stop the deaths.
It seems that lawsuits are not enough. I suggest each time a person dies that murder charges should be filed against each member of the board of directors and each stockholder in the company. People die because of lies and greed...oh yeah, and Tazers.

[Ordflyer]

If Tasers were airplanes there would be HUNDREDS of millions of dollars in settlements - He!! ya they are NOT SAFE.

The irony is that pre-taser a Police Officer would have tackled someone to subdue them - now with (IN MY OPINION) erroneously "safe" viewpoint of Tasers that is promoted by its manufacturer - Police Officers are more than willing to use a taser where they might have just tackled them before...If I'm going to be arrested PLEASE TACKLE ME!!!

A Taser is (in my opinion) a "luck of the draw" WEAPON. It is clearly NOT non-lethal!!