Comments on: Soldiers Survive War, But Not Inner Demons

CBS Evening News: U.S. Army Battles Epidemic Of Suicides That Is Only Getting Worse

[babooph]

The military is far to important to be used for an idiots folly- this is not a game for childlike minds-just because the cold war ended we cannot give the US presidency to a fool to play with.

[brianbwb-2009]

The army uses an anti-malaria drug, called Larium, manufactured by Roche Pharmaceuticals on its soldiers going to war, even in spots where malaria is not known to be an issue.

The problem with Larium is that the side effects include severe depression, hallucinations, and psychotic behavior, and are known to continue even after people stop taking the drug. Roche acknowledges this on it's website, and in accompanying literature. The drug was investigated for a possible role in the Fort Bragg murders a few years back, but the results have not made public to date.

The army seems to think that it is good to turn young people into psychopathic killers to fight mercenary wars for mega corporations, then turn these people loose in society without any treatment for the mental problems they cause.

[httpwwwnews]

Posted by claydowner at 7:58 PM
That was an exceptional post. IrishWench01

I agree. Well said claydowner.

[httpwwwnews]

why a person chooses to end his life even after he's returned home and free from the hell of war. I don't buy exhaustion, and besides, they've already come back home and had time to rest. I'm very receptive to any ideas you may have to explain the cause of this problem. Posted by chasburf

They go to a hellish place, away from family and friends for long periods of time, come home for short periods and get sent right back. Military discipline for months on end is hard to live with. They are away from their children and wives. When they return home their wives are used to being the head of the household, adjustment for everyone is hard. Especially if they leave again soon. Girlfriends get tired of waiting. Then there's the pay; for the lower ranks the pay is so low it's disrespectful. When their overseas tours are over or they get out of the service there are no jobs.

Want to solve the problem? Establish some bases in nearby countries, let wives and familys come live there, give generous frequent leaves. Or severely limit the length of tours of duty and number of rotations in war zones. Make sure they are paid enough for their family's to be supported. Provide aggressive job placement centers for vets and GET them a job when they are returned to civilian life. In other words acknowledge that they are human beings that have need of their families and friends, support them, don't treat them like a tank, a humvee, or some piece of equipment.

[claydowner]

The number of suicides is a reflection of the unrelenting pace of combat deployments on the same number of soldiers. The active duty Army is only 500K soldiers strong. There are only about 36 infantry combat brigades on active duty. There is a brigade deployed in theater, another brigade getting ready to replace the deployed brigade and a brigade that returned from a deployment. For sustained combat operations you have the so called rule of three. One unit there, one unit ready to go, another unit that just got back. We are running into a situation where these ground combat units get deployed over and over again. The operations tempo is unprecedented in US military history. We build better machines like jet aircraft, trucks, armored fighting vehicles, radios, computers, and helicopters to get soldiers into combat as soon as possible. But what we have not done is to appreciate the effects of repeated combat tours on the human being. The human being is the common denominator that has stayed constant in an ever changing universe of repeated combat deployments.

Psychologists who have studied repeated combat tours have testified under oath in front of Senate committees have said that after three combat tours most soldiers will suffer lifelong and often debilitating mental problems. The problems include depression, mental anguish, anxiety, nightmares, failure to make friends, problems with coworkers, problems with marriage. The other real problem that repeated tours cause are the breaking of connections to society. The returning veteran feels that no one has his back. This comes from the platoon structure within the Army. The platoon becomes his family his fellow soldiers his brothers and his squad leader an older brother or even a father. Most soldiers in combat would rather die than let their fellow soldiers in the platoon think they would let them down under enemy fire. The only way to be safe and have any chance at survival is to make sure the bonds of trust within the platoon are kept in tact at all costs even at the cost of one's own personal safety. No matter how awful things get or what happens the machinery of the platoon has to keep functioning like a family. Once a soldier returns stateside or gets discharged he will never have a replacement family for the platoon.

The result is that the veteran has to fight his hardest battles on the home front all alone. His support structure is gone. His own wife or family are no replacement for the family of the platoon. Life changing events that happened in combat will stay with him forever but the comradeship of the platoon will not. Sometimes more mature soldiers can pull through with the deep love of a spouse but it is difficult even then. The most formative years for any young man are the time from high school graduation until he gets married sometime in the mid twenties. If these first years of independence are filled with memories of death, maiming of friends, killings, and high levels of stress there may well be no such a thing as returning to normal because suffering is normal. The dirty secret of all wars are that there are nearly as many casualties on the home front years after the war is over with as were caused by the actual physical combat with the enemy. Alcoholism, suicide, divorce, homelessness and unemployment are the lot of many combat veterans. The worst problems of transitioning back to the home front are well known to counselors. Brilliant writers like James Jones, wrote about the evolution of a soldier into a combat zone within the platoon family and the de-evolution of the veteran back into civilian life. What is not known is how to keep that de-evolution process from destroying the lives of veterans and their families on the lonely home front. Many PHD dissertations could get written about this problem because no one has any real answers for veterans.

[idlepugilist]

Where's the danger? The soldier, the guy walking an I-beam 200 feet off the ground, firefighters, etc. Or does the danger exist with the CEO or banker or politician who have to face down leather chairs and a wrinkle in their suit?
The soldier does the job the rest of us would not or could not handle, but rely on utterly. The soldier who becomes a politician knows it's not an option to adequately fund care for our vets. Watch the non-veteran politicians along with the veteran politicians who never crossed the ocean in uniform: they're the ones who would cut veterans' benefits like a bank foreclosing on an elderly widow.

[Wookiee-1138]

Those who have crossed with direct eyes to death's other kingdom
remember us- if at all
not as lost, violent souls.
But only as the Hollow Men
The Stuffed Men.

[saturn05]

I think this is very sad, but is this war any different than any other war and was suicide just not talked about previously. Why are so many soldiers killing themselves?

[wardoglrs]

This is the Result of voters voting in warmongers and Chicken Hawks for leadership. The Voter should be ashamed for what there doing to these brave people and even to this day most Americans are unaware of the truth of the wars.

"Men by their constitutions are naturally divided into two parties: 1. Those who fear and distrust the people, and wish to draw all powers from them into the hands of the higher classes. 2. Those who identify themselves with the people, have confidence in them, cherish and consider them as the most honest and safe, although not the most wise depositary of the public interests. In every country these two parties exist, and in every one where they are free to think, speak, and write, they will declare themselves. Call them, therefore, Liberals and Serviles, Jacobins and Ultras, Whigs and Tories, Republicans and Federalists, Aristocrats and Democrats, or by whatever name you please, they are the same parties still and pursue the same object. The last one of Aristocrats and Democrats is the true one expressing the essence of all." ~ Thomas Jefferson to Henry Lee, 1824.

[marcodele]

Republicans have a history of sending other people's kids to war, and ignoring them when they come home. Reagan, Bush1 and Bush2 all cut veterans beneifts. That's a fact that Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and Ann Coulter can't quite wrap their little bigoted minds around.

Our veterans deserve as much attention when they come back as they do when the Neocons send them into battle.

[tincup356]

my husband is a 23 year special forces veteran suffering from depression and ptsd, during our visit with his phychiatrist at our local va facility this week, we were informed that the hospital and more importantly the phych unit is going to be downsized due to budget cuts and each counselor and md will be treating many, many, many more patients than their current caseload in the coming months. what the heck is obama talking about "we will get these good men and women the help and care they need". are we getting more lip service just like the past administration? the va benefits budget should be tripled, not cut!!! if most people had any idea what these men and women actually give to all of us, this would never be an issue. it just doesn't end. if anyone has any good ideas how to navigate the unbelievable convoluted "system" to get these people the benefits they absolutely deserve (mental nervous, physical and other care as well as the disability non-benefits) i would love to hear from you!
a wife who absolutely believes in her husband and his sacrifice, god bless the rest of you trying to navigate the same labrinth we are!
Posted by chrisnbob at 5:11 PM : Apr 9, 2009 ........................................
Why do people believe that our government cares about anyone but themselves, and the greedy mega rich that run them?,,,,,,,,,,,They do not care about our soldiers, citizens, small businesses,,,,,,,,NONE OF US,,,,,,,War is profit to those people and they DO NOT CARE how many innocent people die in order for them to reap the rewards of their corruption and greed. The way our government has treated our soldiers is criminal. If a revolution were to break out in America now, ,,,,,,I would not be surprised to see more than 2/3 of the military side with the people,,,,,,I think at least that many would know which side was in the right, and it would NOT be the government of this country.

[its-not-over]

This is what happens when you go to war to be a hero only to find out you are the bad guy. You lose your honor and integrity, and sadly many see suicide as the only way to redeem themselves. I am not a vet but my dad is and I grew up seeing how it effected him. If you know anyone who wants to join the military do anything in your power to stop them. America has lost it's way in going into an unprovoked war with the only tangible reason being greed and oil. More American soldiers are killing themselves than are dieing on the battlefields. It seems when men go to war for justice's sake only to commit war crimes, justice still wins out in the pure of heart. Too bad the unjust ended up being themselves and that death is the wage of sin.

[chasburf]

I don't claim to understand the phenomenon entirely............
Posted by chasburf

Not only do you not understand "entirely" you are TOTALLY FULL OF CHIT!!!!!!!
...............................................................................................................................................

That may be, but I don't see you offering any viable reason why a person chooses to end his life even after he's returned home and free from the hell of war. I don't buy exhaustion, and besides, they've already come back home and had time to rest. I'm very receptive to any ideas you may have to explain the cause of this problem. You expend energy criticizing and trying to be hurtful, but do nothing to solve or prevent this problem.

[tmsaurman]

Part of the problem is when a "soldier" in this case, calls in for help and actually gets in to see a shrink, they pretty much write it up as the "soldier" is just trying to get attention or an easy discharge from the military. So these "soldiers" who cried out for help are ridiculed and sent back to duty. They are left to themselves to either kill themselves and prove that they weren't just trying to get attention or to move on and squash all those thoughts deep down. Their co "soldiers" see this and when fighting their own demons, choose not to even ask for help.

Instead of quack shrinks saying that they are not serious cases, every case should be treated seriously. But that is not how the military operates with its suicide prevention.

[USMCManny]

chadb19 depends on what you do for the military..In conventional military yes those numbers are about right (IT ALL DEPENDS based on what you do which falls under all branches) Their are many Air Force who do in the lieu for the Army so they do 12 to 15 also. Since they are their sister branch. My brother falls under the band Special Operations (Air Force part of their history) so they see longer time plus more than 4 tours. They sometimes have no return date. I am the Marines and have done 2 tours

[chrisnbob]

my husband is a 23 year special forces veteran suffering from depression and ptsd, during our visit with his phychiatrist at our local va facility this week, we were informed that the hospital and more importantly the phych unit is going to be downsized due to budget cuts and each counselor and md will be treating many, many, many more patients than their current caseload in the coming months. what the heck is obama talking about "we will get these good men and women the help and care they need". are we getting more lip service just like the past administration? the va benefits budget should be tripled, not cut!!! if most people had any idea what these men and women actually give to all of us, this would never be an issue. it just doesn't end. if anyone has any good ideas how to navigate the unbelievable convoluted "system" to get these people the benefits they absolutely deserve (mental nervous, physical and other care as well as the disability non-benefits) i would love to hear from you!
a wife who absolutely believes in her husband and his sacrifice, god bless the rest of you trying to navigate the same labrinth we are!

[chasburf]

I don't claim to understand the phenomenon entirely, and in each case the circumstances may vary a bit, but this is a predictable outcome among a large population of young men and women who have been trapped into a conflicted mentality. Even if it doesn't take place in the conscious mind, most often it doesn't, when a person knows that something isn't right, that the war was unnecessary and unjust from the beginning, there's this terrible conflicted mind that won't allow the mind to rest. The subconscious knows that they are part of an evil act by their own government, but the conscious mind won't allow it to admit this is the case. The only way out of this trap is to turn their back on their country or their fellow soldiers, but that is an unacceptable alternative. This condition destroys eats away at a person's sanity and the only escape they can abide is death. Being a tough guy doesn't protect--the only ones who really don't have this type of conflict are those who lack compassion and many of the good qualities most of us possess. In the civilian world, they are sociopaths, or extreme narcissists who never cared about anyone but themselves throughout their whole lives.

[chadb19]

I did 2 tours and its very simple. The army tours are too dam long!! Air Force do 4 months and even the Marines do only 7. Army 12 and 15 month tours rip families apart and place too much of a burden on soldiers who have tour after tour. Reduce the tours to 6 months and you will see the sucide and divorce rates fall. This is not rocket science!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[payasyougo]

"Soldiers Survive War, But Not Inner Demons
CBS Evening News: U.S. Army Battles Epidemic Of Suicides That Is Only Getting Worse"
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Call the VA. Seek help. Not everyone has abandoned you.