Comments on: The Problem With Biofuels

Skyrocketing Food Prices Have Caused Some To Rethink The Wisdom Of Using Crops For Fuel

[jon2012-2009]

We can go round and round on providing references, it basically comes down to a personal choice on who to believe. I''''m man enough to say I could be wrong and man made global warming is a factual, only time will tell.
Posted by thcarson at 02:39 PM : Jul 13, 2008

How modest of you to admit you could be wrong. But there''s no need to insinuate your position on this issue. You are not a climate scientist, and if you were, the scientific consensus has been reached at least 15 years ago. And that''s what counts. When the National Academy of Sciences and IPCC change their views about climate change, that''s when we know the tide of evidence has turned against global warming. My understanding is that the science has grown and is now on more solid footing than ever.

So this debate among laymen is totally unproductive. A scientific issue has always been determined one way or another by science without the input of nonscientists. And national policies should be set based on what is accepted as science. That''s happening in many countries of the world, the U.S. is maybe a disturbing exception.

[toolmangler-2009]

The Cretaceous period was the warmest on earth. You could have grown tomatoes at the North Pole.
Posted by thcarson at 02:39 PM : Jul 13, 2008



They do that right now, silly. Just not all year round.

[toolmangler-2009]

If your are starving to death, a SUV will be of no use, Or a moped either. You need to stay alive to drive not drive to stay alive. (Don''t go off the deep end trying to prove me wrong) (Food before fuel)

[thcarson-2009]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scientists_opposing_the_mainstream_scientific_assessment_of_global_warming

Here, I''ll use the same source as yours.

[CarolJWright]

This biofuels solution "works" in terms of being shortsighted. It works for corn farmers (or wheat farmers turning to corn!), corn speculators, for those near ethonol distribution. It is a medium sighted solution if you take into account that corn fuels are more carbon neutral, grows on our own land, and is somewhat renewable. However, now we are faced with the holistic reality and global repercussions. Looked at in philosophic terms, we tend to decide and act initially on a kneejerk reductionist (not to mention greedy) basis, only to eat crow holistically, where the planning should happen holistically first. Me-first, profit-grabbing, environment-trashing, letting the marketplace regulate itself (HA!)...all reductionist and very Bush. Now''s time for a holistic mindshift...it''s not a woo-woo concept any more.

[thcarson-2009]

Tad Murty, oceanographer; adjunct professor, Departments of Civil Engineering and Earth Sciences, University of Ottawa: global warming "is the biggest scientific hoax being perpetrated on humanity. There is no global warming due to human anthropogenic activities. The atmosphere hasn%u2019t changed much in 280 million years, and there have always been cycles of warming and cooling. The Cretaceous period was the warmest on earth. You could have grown tomatoes at the North Pole"

We can go round and round on providing references, it basically comes down to a personal choice on who to believe. I''m man enough to say I could be wrong and man made global warming is a factual, only time will tell. Enviromental factors do cause fuel price increases, EPA restrictions make it more expensive for refiners to process oil and the ULSD came from plant expansions and conversions that cost in the millions of dollars.

[thcarson-2009]

http://www.zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=106708 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/sci_tech/2000/climate_change/1023334.stm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/23/AR2006052301305_pf.html
http://www.discover.com/issues/sep-05/departments/discover-dialogue
http://www.wecnmagazine.com/2007issues/may/may07.html

[sidvicious44]

Oh I see. Gasoline prices are mixed in with global warming. Typical neocon spin.

[thcarson-2009]

Well, if you''''re clueless about supporting your own quotes, then what?


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Posted by nfynvk74769


The Zichichi quote is from April 07'', the Dr. Grey quotes are from 2000-2005.The Bryson stuff is from May 07

[thcarson-2009]

Obviously, given the relatively short latency of responses until I asked my question, and then a relatively huge wait, you had no clue as to the answer until you just looked it up. You are LEARNING, my friend!


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Posted by nfynvk74769

Of course I''m looking this stuff up, I don''t know the entire history on the theory of global warming, I also think it''s foolish to belive everything politicians, some scientists, and the mass media tell us when there is a large contingent of equally qualified scientists who dispute the theory.

Hasn''t it occured to anybody that when we go to the pump for a gallon of gas, we are in direct price competition with those countries that SUBSIDIZE gas consumers? We are not in price competition with gas consumers of other countries, we are in price competition with governments! It''s called the "world marketplace".
Also, has it occured to anybody that if you use the price of gas as a yardstick - then the demand for gasoline has DOUBLED in the last few months. Any credibility in that??? Somethin'' stinks. I don''t think it has anything to do with "world supply". I think it has more to do with those money grubbers on wall street.

[thcarson-2009]

The causes of ice ages remain controversial for both the large-scale ice age periods and the smaller ebb and flow of glacial%u2013interglacial periods within an ice age. The consensus is that several factors are important: atmospheric composition (the concentrations of carbon dioxide, methane); changes in the Earth''s orbit around the Sun known as Milankovitch cycles (and possibly the Sun''s orbit around the galaxy); the motion of tectonic plates resulting in changes in the relative location and amount of continental and oceanic crust on the Earth''s surface, which could affect wind and ocean currents; variations in solar output; the orbital dynamics of the Earth-Moon system; and the impact of relatively large meteorites, and volcanism including eruptions of supervolcanoes.

Some of these factors are causally related to each other. For example, changes in Earth''s atmospheric composition (especially the concentrations of greenhouse gases) may alter the climate, while climate change itself can change the atmospheric composition (for example by changing the rate at which weathering removes CO2).

[farmersright]

This article is so biased, you should be ashamed. To say that biofuel production is causing increased cost to feed is ludicrious. Actually talk to a farmer, pick any kind any location, and they will tell you the price of food has risen primarily due to increased costs. Mainly diesel fuel and fertilize. Diesel has more than doubled over the last 24 months. This involves every aspect of agriculture. The price of fertilize, or any form of agricultural chemical etc, has more than tripled. This involves every aspect of agriculture. No matter what the crop, any crop you can think of has been affected by this. So the farmer finally has another option for his crop, one which could have a very beneficial result for every person. A lowering of our dependence on foreign oil. Which will also LOWER food prices. If your going to right a story on biofuels...atleast look at all aspects of why food is higher...in comparison, biofuels has very little to do with increases considering oil is 140.00+ per barrel...

[thcarson-2009]

Exactly WHEN did he say this (reference, please)?

Also, you still haven''''t answered my first question, and here is another: why do ice ages occur?


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Posted by nfynvk74769

when did who say what? I don''t know for sure the answer to your first question just that the greenhouse effect was discovered in 1824.

[thcarson-2009]

Reid Bryson, emeritus professor of Atmospheric and Oceanic Sciences, University of Wisconsin-Madison: "It%u2019s absurd. Of course it%u2019s going up. It has gone up since the early 1800s, before the Industrial Revolution, because we%u2019re coming out of the Little Ice Age, not because we%u2019re putting more carbon dioxide into the air."[

[thcarson-2009]

Antonino Zichichi, emeritus professor of nuclear physics at the University of Bologna and president of the World Federation of Scientists : "models used by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) are incoherent and invalid from a scientific point of view".[

I''m sure this guy doesn''t know anything seeing as he is president of the world federation of scientists.

[thcarson-2009]

Posted by thcarson at 11:34 AM : Jul 13, 2008

P.P.S. Also, the big oil companies, and others don''''t have anything to gain (or lose) by having their own ''''conspiracy''''.


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Posted by nfynvk74769


I think it is very foolish to believe everything you are told, especially since not all of the "leading scientists" accept global warming as fact.

[thcarson-2009]

William M. Gray, Professor Emeritus and head of The Tropical Meteorology Project, Department of Atmospheric Science, Colorado State University: "This small warming is likely a result of the natural alterations in global ocean currents which are driven by ocean salinity variations. Ocean circulation variations are as yet little understood. Human kind has little or nothing to do with the recent temperature changes. We are not that influential."[26] "I am of the opinion that [global warming] is one of the greatest hoaxes ever perpetrated on the American people."[27] "So many people have a vested interest in this global-warming thing%u2014all these big labs and research and stuff. The idea is to frighten the public, to get money to study it more."

[thcarson-2009]

Sorry to break it to you, but you''''re late fot this one. Only 99.999% of real scientists agree that global warming is, in fact, a real danger. The rest are paid oil company stooges.

Anyhow, since that was already settled years ago, we are debating about what to do about it. The title of the article we''''re blogging on is: "The Problem With Biofuels", not "How Much Longer Can Humanity Be Fooled".


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Posted by nfynvk74769

I highly doubt the percentage is that high.

[thcarson-2009]

Robert M. Carter, geologist, researcher at the Marine Geophysical Laboratory at James Cook University in Australia: "the accepted global average temperature statistics used by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change show that no ground-based warming has occurred since 1998 ... there is every doubt whether any global warming at all is occurring at the moment, let alone human-caused warming."[9]