Comments on: "Reform Math" Leaves Some Perplexed

New Curriculum Has Some Parents So Concerned, They're Taking Matters Into Their Own Hands

[novoodoomath]

The brief CBS report on fuzzy math cites one of the authors of Everyday Mathematics that leaves me utterly puzzled:

%u201CWe're preparing kids now for jobs that we don't even know are going to exist, and we can't be teaching them the same mathematics that we did years and years ago, we really have to prepare them for the workforce that they'll be headed to,%u201D says Dillard.

This is fuzzy thinking of the worst kind.

How can you prepare for unknown jobs that, moreover, might never exist? This leap into the dark is certainly not a sound basis for abandoning real math.

Fuzzy math is harmful on many levels. As a math teacher I see math cripples every day. One harmful aspect of fuzzy math is the overreliance on calculators. I've noticed that pupils who use calculators for the simplest computations never develop number sense. They have no clue, for example, that the answer to 15 X 3 has to be more than 15 and cannot be something in the hundreds or thousands.

For an excellent treatment of how the fuzzy math plague came upon us, read David Klein's history of math teaching. A link can be found here:

http://instructivist.blogspot.com/2005/01/ed-wars.html

[ecuadoriana]

I worked as a paraeducator in an elementary school for a few years. That's all I could take. The math curriculum was based on the Everyday Math program & it was as a disaster in the making. Kids are not required to memorize addition, subraction or times tables. Instead they're encouraged to use a calculator or make a guesstimate.

The kids didn't even try. They had no care if answers were right or wrong- because of all the "fuzzy feel good everybody's special & everybody makes mistakes so that's okay don't feel bad" pandering that goes on. I wanted to scream every time a parent said: "Oh, my precious doesn't like to be told when he's wrong. It lowers his esteem & he feels bad about himself. His therapist says..." The administration & teachers catered to this, the kids fed off it. "My mom says that you can't give me a bad grade..." (One teacher let the kids grade themselves for their own report cards based on how well they thought they had done that term! Of course they all gave themselves A's! Duh!)

What happened to trying harder next time or learning from one's mistakes? What happened to not everyone wins & that's life?

Sometimes I think it's no wonder all the jobs are being sent overseas! I wouldn't want to hire someone who lacks basic math, comprehension & social skills either!

Talk about dumbing down the world!! Once again, the US takes the lead straight to h e ll.

[cembalisty]

Both approaches to teaching math are wrong if done in isolation Both neglect to address the problems in the way math is taught in the Unites States. Let's look at the facts. Our students fall farther behind other developed nations each year. The old memorization methods no longer serve us well.

I have taught for 23 years devoting the past five to changing what I do in with math. Read "The Teaching Gap" to understand our problem.

Sometimes quick accurate answers are needed. There are times when estimates are close enough. Both miss UNDERSTANDING the concepts that drive math. When children internalize the concepts, they create a network of understanding rather then isolated memorizations of algorythms that cannot be applied to solve new problems. Understanding conecpts allows application to solve new problems.

In Japan and Germany math is taught from a conceptual stand point. Students engage in math problem solving science experiments. They conjecture, discuss with their peers, discuss a variety of solutions, discuss why the different ways to solve a problem work, while connecting to other math concepts.

NCLB and the back to basics movements have us stuck in the old paradigm. Children hate math. Politicians aren't educators. They force teachers to focus on memorization to pass tests. Tests drive the curricula. Because of this, students were better prepared to solve problems and enter the workforce 10 years ago. We fall father behind each year.

When sawing 7 foot section off of a 10 foot long board, the remaining board is NEVER three feet. It's length is generally between 6 foot, 11.75 inches and 6 foot, 11.85 inches. One must consider the width of the saw, whether the cut is made at a right angle to the board, etc., etc. Predicting the real length can only be an approximation. In the real world, engineers will make a prediction and provide a tolerance band around that prediction. It is a fools errand to confuse simplistic theory with real life reality. It doesn't work with sawing wood nor does it work with quantum physics. The sooner a student embraces the reality that surround him/her, the better a mathematician he/she will be.

[roach9703]

First, the exact solution needs to be introduced first before one talks about approximations. Educators love complexity because it gives them more control. For most parts of the country may I recommend home study.

[tsujimn]

Reform math? Any other parents remember that nonsense called "whole language" that was used to teach reading about 10 or so years ago. Kids were taught to just "write it like it sounds." There was no instruction in phonics whatsoever. As a parent who lived through whole language with one child and spend countless hours "undoing" whole language and self teaching my child phonics I can only say one thing RUN!!! Yes, learning can be fun, Yes, we need to teach kids to think things through, but every house needs a firm foundation (phonics, times tables, flash cards) I considered whole language to be the closet thing to educaitonal negligence that I could imagine, looks like reform math may join the ranks of that hall of shame!

[vbdon-2009]

"What IS 10 - 7? If you think you know, then you are incorrect. 3 is not the only correct answer.

What if I need a board 10 feet long minus 7 inches?"

Obviously, your reform math course neglected to teach you math logic and that 10-7 is always 3. The examples you gave to the contrary do not apply because you are mixing different measures. 10 feet is 120 inches. Therefore that example is not 10-3 but 120 - 3, which is always exactly 117. Your examples are proof that reform math has left you without the fundementals further education or self-learning.

[nofuzzymath]

Studies have shown that children who learn math using TERC Investigations and Connected Math are TWO years behind those who are taught with traditional methods.

Parents whose children have been exposed to reform math thinking know that this curriculum is not challenging and leaves their children short-changed in accuracy and fluency.

Parents whose kids were exposed to reform math thinking for years are seeing the unfortunate results as their children who they thought were great in math have trouble with basic middle school math demands.

Decimals, fractions with denominators like 7, numbers that are not "friendly" pose problems since the discovery methods taught by reform math just don't work all the time.

This article is incomplete in that it doesn't discuss the problems that years of this math thinking creates.

Perhaps CBS News will continue their discussion and look at parent groups nationwide that have been fighting reform math: NYC District #2, the state of Washington, Penfield NY, Bridgewater NJ, Ridgewood NJ, Plainview-Old Bethpage NY, Columbia MO.
School board elections are becoming affected by the importance of this issue as parents use their power as voters to affect math curriculum change in their districts.

[mollymedioc1]

Here's a youtube playlist of several clips concerning a reform math program called "TERC Investigations."

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=51F7E678DA2326A9

(Copy and paste the above URL into one line if it appears split up into two)

[ullamike]

A too hasty reply:

Earlier I jumped at the bait in the article, without reading up on the context. I do strongly support building a strong foundation in mathematics by traditional means. However, I also very strongly support the "discovery method". Indeed, I taught by this method for over forty years at universities of the highest level. At the beginning of a research career, I would much rather instill power over knowledge. If the student can find totally original, although often less elegant soultions, to known results, then when the results are unknown, the student still finds solutions. Knowledge can easily be attained by bright people "as needed".

[emma915]

Math is precise! And every child has to start at the beginning. Andor3's response is totally out of context in describing what our kids/grandchildren are dealing with. We start by teaching them to count -- 1,2,3 -- then add, multiply, divide, etc. Then we teach them that one foot equals 12 inches, 8 ounces equals 1 cup, and build from there. Eventually they will know that in andor3's example, there are 9 full feet and one foot isn't complete. And as to how many people have been on staff for however many months, etc., the answer can't be measured in inches. Kids need to learn that you don't mix apples and oranges. You keep them separate, even if they're all part of the problem you're working on. They learn that there are several other problems to solve before they can solve the one they're working on. You know what's that's called? THINKING!!! Even if the basics have to be memorized, the thinking part has to be achieved to solve the problems.
I can't believe what my granddaughter is learning in mathematics! I for one am going to scroll back up to the petition site for those who are against this new way of teaching math and sign my name to it!

[pwb314]

I am a professional mathematician working for a major research university. There is a distinct difference between mathematics educators and mathematicians. Mathematics educators normally have degrees in education while mathematicians are students of the science of mathematics. Most of my colleagues and I would like to see students trained rigorously in the basics of arithmetic and algebra in their precollege classes. The education theorists running the university education departments and local school boards are the originators of reform mathematics. People planning on attending colleges are being shortchanged by their local schools and most of these students have to take remedial classes to address their shotcomings.

[nofuzzymath]

Reform math's dumbing down of American education needs to be addressed. It is a sad reality and needs to be stopped.

Parent advocacy groups around the nation against reform math have been around for years and more are cropping up.
www.nychold.com
www.illinoisloop.org
www.wheresthemath.com
www.vormath.info


This YouTube video explains the unusual methods taught to children in TERC Investigations and Everyday Math for division and multiplication:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tr1qee-bTZI

On-line petitions are collecting hundreds of signatures from concerned parents who end up teaching their children math at home or hiring tutors and want a return to basics:
http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeubbeq/
http://www.petitiononline.com/cprm/petition.html

Many newspaper articles have been written as well. Google Investigations or Everyday Math to see what comes up and why parents are up in arms about what is happening - those in the unfortunate 25% of schools that have succombed to this educationist snake oil.

[mnwinters]

The report would be disturbing if it was true.
I was watching the show and could not believe parents tolerated 2+2=5 is "close enough".
I then saw it was the book my kids use (one currently, the other several years ago). The program is FULL of calculations that require precise answers. The fact that the reporter took one lesson, concerning estimating, and "reported" that "close enough" was the goal was ill infomred at best and absolutely lying at the worst. My high schooler has done very well in high school math, with this program as his foundation, and my 5th grade daughter is also doing well. CBS should be ashamed.

[a3avon]

"They didn't because these people probably don't exist. Mathematicians, scientists and professors use "reformed math" techniques daily, and there isn't any debate over their value."

You are quite misinformed... More than 200 professors of mathematics and scientists openly expressed their disdain for reform math programs in an open letter to the US Department of Education. These are academics in the world of math and science from Stanford, Harvard, Yale, CalTech, MIT, UC Berkley, UCLA, Cornell, etc. Many Nobel laureates and Fields Medal winners (highest honor in mathematics) and they openly expressed their disdain for the direction the NCTM was leading educators in the teaching of mathematics.

These mathematicians and scientists are still fighting today because they see freshman entering college without the requisite skills for advanced math, they see the paucity of candidates from US schools with the ability to excel in engineering, science, physics, and other highly technical fields, they see the proof of the US. slipping further and further downward in the fields of math and science.

Ask a professor of mathematics at any leading university if they support reform math in its present form and test your theory. I dare you.

[andor3]

"It would have been much more telling had they interviewed mathematicians and scientists, including college professors who do not support these types of methods."

They didn't because these people probably don't exist. Mathematicians, scientists and professors use "reformed math" techniques daily, and there isn't any debate over their value. The only question is how soon and what techniques to use in teaching them to students.

If students tune out before they get there, it is a great loss.

[andor3]

"Math is precise"

This is not only wrong, it can be a dangerous misconception.

Math is absolutely not precise--the precision varies depending on many things. The fact that people keep repeating this misunderstanding just confirms the gaps in "traditional" education.

What IS 10 - 7? If you think you know, then you are incorrect. 3 is not the only correct answer.

Everybody should start with arithmetic, and there has always been a second grader who needed help to learn subtraction--that's irrelevant to this discussion.

But in math terms, there is not enough information to answer. What if I need a board 10 feet long minus 7 inches? What if I need to add 10 cups of flour minus 7 tablespoons? What if I offer to pay you $10 minus 7% for taxes? What if I ask you to finish a project in 10 months with 7 less staff?

In a time when calculations are done by machines, mathematical competence depends more on being able to think and analyze than to calculate.

Because the machines often give very precise answers that are wrong, and it is up to the humans to detect that.

[tonic1661]

Reform maths plays to an audience of the lowest common denominator. Pardon the pun.

Teachers in the past have taught mathematics. Current teachers want easy outs with higher scores so they will not be "left behind". .....results of another george bush bad idea.

[susanhelit]

All the details aren't there, but the fact that the child can't do 10-7 - that says quite enough to me about these methods.

Math is precise. That is what it is. Now, as you learn algebra, or if your teacher teaches you some of the shortcuts - you learn a few methods of approximation, 'reasonable' answers - but that comes after, and is for the slightly tougher problems. (198 * 6 - rather than solve it with long division, figure 198 is approx 200, and 200 * 6 is easy.).

[andor3]

carly710 writes:

"I've been in stores where, if the cash register goes down, the average teen can't even figure out much change to give... "

Logic meltdown there--an experience where a stressed-out clerk dealing with equipment failure fumbles with change, somehow generalizes to the "average teen." It doesn't work that way.

Logic can be included with math. Would remedial Everyday Math help here?