Comments on: A Secret Deal On Immigration?

Exclusive: Private Talks Between Congress And White House Auger A Bill That Some Will Call Amnesty

[loveusa2]

Consider the land of origin of many of the 11M. Many countries, ex Guatemala are facing civil strife. Honduras and El Salvador face major devastation and health issues due to Hurricanes. What about refugee illegal immigrants from Somalia. (Google this headline: Detention Facility for Immigrants Criticized) Many of these refugees were brought here on temporary visas. Now that their visa dates have passed, they are considered illegal. Do you want to deport them back to the carnage and devastation?
Now ask yourself again: Do I know or have I studied the Immigration Issues?

[toldyouso21]

Posted by LoveUSA2 at 03:08 PM : May 14, 2007

why do you keep saying 11 million? The media continually reports 12 million. The number is probably much higher than that. In 1986 with the first amnesty, we were told that the amount that would be amnestied was about 8 million. It turned out to be closer to 16 million as people flooded the border replete with fake paperwork and hidden illegals turned up. It was almost impossible to determine the validity of documents as even landlords and businesses helped to falsify documents. So the 12 million number is probably closer to 18 to 20 million NOT 11 million. Also, why do you think these people should have a track to earn citizenship when others in India and Africa have to wait up to 20 years to get in and are already in the line?

The fact that Bush says illegals must take their place at the back of the line is stupid. For one thing, the line NEVER ends so there is no back--whereever we place the line jumpers will be unfair to those who try to do it legally. In the second place--the earned credits means the theory of 10 to 13 years is bogus, if they can get credit for work, needed skills or speaking English then again cheating and cutting in line is being rewarded. I am curious why you think these particular 11 to 20 million should be rewarded for disobeying the law when others in the lines for years will never be rewarded. Are you Hispanic?

[loveusa2]

Those who are requesting Mass Deportation of the 11M here do not know the negative impacts this will have on our country. Bernanke said the 11M have had a net positive revenue impact on our country due to the various labor shortages and without them, we would have suffered a major recession. The Boomers are aging and retiring. We need the 11M to help us through this era. Comptroller Strayhorns study indicated a $17B annual net revenue gain for TX. Revenue includes Sales Tax revenue and buying power.

[randalds]

Posted by LoveUSA2 at 03:08 PM : May 14, 2007

Absolutely fantastic set of posts! I read every one of them and can't find a single thing to disagree with! Wonderful! It's nice to know there are other people who are thinking about this realistically rather then using knee jerk reactions to jingoistic bumper sticker politics! Again Fantastic posts!

[loveusa2]

Those who are requesting Mass Deportation of the 11M here do not know the negative impacts this will have on our country. Bernanke said the 11M have had a net positive revenue impact on our country due to the various labor shortages and without them, we would have suffered a major recession. The Boomers are aging and retiring. We need the 11M to help us through this era. Comptroller Strayhorns study indicated a $17B annual net revenue gain for TX. Revenue includes Sales Tax revenue and buying power.

[loveusa2]

You are absolutely right about 1 thing. The major issue is, what to do about the 11M here. It has taken over 20 years for the number to accumulate to 11M. Dont forget, most have been employed throughout. The majority have lived here for well over 5 years.

What Comprehensive Immigration Reform will do is establish a Guest Worker program and a path to citizenship. This path will take over 10 years, crime free, assimilated, forms & fees paid and a return to their land of origin to complete the process. This is NO AMNESTY. This is earned citizenship.

Of course we need to secure borders and to sanction-punish employers and human traffickers. ICE has already published the significant improvements vs last year.

[hotinphoenix]

The issue is what to do with the 12 to 20 million illegal immigrants already in this country, not the particular views of this or that group.

An amnesty will not solve the problem of illegal immigration. It will only increase it.

We had an amnesty under Reagan. It resulted in more illegal immigration. Calling everyone in the world a "racist" won't change that fact.

Every country deports illegal immigrants, including Mexico. It's a universal principal. There is nothing immoral or wrong with opposing illegal immigration.

There is nothing immoral or wrong with deporting illegal aliens, either. Every country in the world does it.

If you are pro-amnesty and can't support your position, other than by calling everyone opposing amnesty a "racist," then it is your motivations you should be questioning.

[loveusa2]

Start with John Tanton and his racist comments back in the 704s that Hispanics are uneducatable. He is the Godfather of the ANTIs. He formed F.A.I.R, NumbersUSA, ProAmericaPAC and You don4t speak for me (a phony mexican american group).
Then Chris Simcox, the head of the Minutemen. Google this headline: Minuteman Leader has Troubled Past
Then go to the San Diego MMs, the ones charged with terrorizing and brutalizing migrant camps. Google thisQ Jeff Schwilk Leader of the San Diego Minutemen reveals his Violent Nature

Next, during the May 1 marches, an MM terrorized the marchers and was arrested with a cache of weapons in his pickup truck.

I could go on and on all day with this stuff!!

[hotinphoenix]

The "labor shortage" rationale is false. At most, it supports a guest-worker program, not an amnesty.

Nurses are not among the 20 million illegals in this country. They can get in legally.

We are really talking about what to do with the 20 million unskilled illegal immigrants already here. They are the people who work as farm labors and dishwashers.

These jobs can be filled with a guest worker program. If you give the illegals amnesty, they will no longer need to do the jobs other Americans won't do.

Once legal, they make just as much on welfare as working the difficult jobs they do now. Than what? More illegals? Another amnesty?

Since an "earned citizenship" or amnesty program will cause a shortage in the jobs that illegals do now, as well as lead to more illegal immigration, deportation is the only rational policy.

[toldyouso21]

You are imprisoning Children in these horrible instant prisons all at $90 a day to the RNC cronies.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/
wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/21/AR2007
022101661.html

I wonder if your response to this is the same as Americans during the Japanese Internment responded when they first learned of those imprisonments.
Posted by LoveUSA2 at 11:41 AM : May 14, 2007


they could not be imprisoned if their parents did not use them as pawns and bring them here when they came in illegally or tried to have babies to gain a foothold into our country. So the rootcause (if children are imprisoned) are the parents callously disregarding the possibility that not only will they pay for being illegal, but so will their children. No child of 2 illegals should ever be granted US citizenship as a minor and children caught up in this, should be deported back to families still in the home country or put in orphanages. The cost of committing a crime--even if some feel their particular crime is justified.

[toldyouso21]

. Posted by LoveUSA2 at 11:22 AM : May 14, 2007

Some people propose killing all illegals. That way, they would not overcrowd prisons, no one would need to worry about the families and the dead ones would never come back. It would also serve as a deterrent to new migrations across the border. Of course that would be horrible--but as people are pushed one way or the other and one groups views is forced on the other, extreme views and possibilities come to the fore.

the fact is, if you really want concessions then there has to be a stopping point. Everyone knows illegal immigration will not stop with this amnesty, it will only encourage it. It is also true that many of the jobs "Americans do not want" stories are not true. Americans may not be wanted by the employer since he would have to provide benefits and ensure workplace safety and Workers comp. but that does not mean there are not lots of Americans who would not like the jobs. I personally know several Americans who cannot find work on construction sites and have been informed it was due to their status and requirements. So your remarks are bull and many Americans suspect this. Face it--there will be a compromise--and that does not mean that either you or I completely get our own way. When you open your arms in generousity to others, make sure what you offer up only belongs to you--otherwise--you will have a fight on your hands.

[loveusa2]

You are imprisoning Children in these horrible instant prisons all at $90 a day to the RNC cronies.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/21/AR2007022101661.html

I wonder if your response to this is the same as Americans during the Japanese Internment responded when they first learned of those imprisonments.

[loveusa2]

Check out info on the Willacy Detention Center. FOLLOW THE MONEY!!

http://cajeproject.org/blog/?p=29

[loveusa2]

Of course the prisons are overcrowded in TX, NM and AZ. This is because of the massive workplace sweeps and the change of the OTM policy. Previously, the OTM policy was catch and release. Bush changed the policy last year. All OTMs are not imprisoned in instant prisons. These instant prisons were built by RNC Cronies. These cronies won these no-bid contract after Bush4s promise. These sweeps are lining the pockets of the cronies since they are paid $90 a day per person. No wonder they are arresting entire families.

[loveusa2]

Of course there are massive labor shortages in this country. Benanke has said the 11M have positively contributed to our economy and saved us from a massive recession. This is particularly important as the Boomers age and move into their retirement years. Mass Deportation would kill our ecomony.
Look at the job shortages.
Nursing: http://www.aacn.nche.edu/Media/FactSheets/NursingShortage.htm
Farming: http://www.columbusdispatch.com/dispatch/contentbe/EPIC_shim.php?story=247186

IT: http://www.h1base.com/page.asp?id=348

[toldyouso21]

But entering the country without documents is a civil violation. It%u2019s neither a felony nor a misdemeanor, as is, say, driving without insurance documents. If an illegal entrant is taken to immigration court, the punishment, if so adjudged, is called %u201Cremoval.%u201D Usually the entrants are allowed to leave voluntarily, avoiding formal deportation. That%u2019s important because re-entry after voluntary departure remains a civil violation, but after formal deportation becomes a felony.%u201D Obviously, there should be no such thing as voluntary deportation. All so adjudged should be formally deported at their own expense. The next time they show up they will be felons and treated accordingly. This is another major flaw in our immigration proceedings.
Posted by LoveUSA2 at 09:08 PM : May 13, 2007

The initial violation is a civil one (though some in Congress are working to change that) BUT any repeated violation of Deportation orders is a felony, which is why some being caught reentering or having faced deportation are being jailed. You may want to google the stories on CBS on the overtaxing of jails in Arizona, New Mexico and Texas due to the backlog of illegal immigration cases for elucidation on this issue. A Civil breach of law the first time, a criminal breach if the deportation orders are violated.

[toldyouso21]

The truth is, the only place middle income is impacted on wages is by outsourcing and you know it!!
Posted by LoveUSA2 at 04:06 PM : May 13, 2007


Actually, it is also by insourcing. Between the large inlux of immigrants (legal and otherwise) getting everything from visas to work in computer technology to nursing, jobs that would have gone to middle class Americans are not available. In several instances, employers prefer the foreign labor as they do not have to pay full benefits, save for pensions, etc. RE-sourcing of American jobs to anyone except Americans does hurt the middle class and is not an isolated phenomenon hence, the interest and advocacy of Lou Dobbs.

[loveusa2]

There is no such thing as amnesty in any potencial bill. To begin with, if any of you ever studied the issue, you would know it takes 10+ years for someone from Mexico to obtain legal status following the USCIS immigration process. With the new procedures it will take even longer. It is very clear these are EARNED paths to citizenship. Most of the 11M here have been here 5 years. It has taken over 20 years for the number to total 11M. This is not an overnight issue.

I encourage everyone to study the Immigration issues before they listen to the rhetoric from the ANTI coalitions.

[loveusa2]

Kai,
I know the old argument: Some of my best friends are Mexican. I can tell what an illegal immigrant looks like by looking at them. I have this special power that tells me so. Maybe its their cowboy boots or belt buckle. I could tell every May 1 Marcher was illegal. I could tell because they all have brown hair and brown skin.

No one is undercutting your wage. Go back to school. Study. You are in charge of your own wage. What a big crock for you to make a statement "they are undercutting my wages!"

You don4t understand nor have you studied the immigration issues. You don4t have any idea the impact of Mass deportation to our USA.

People like you who don4t study the issues and spout out your ridiculous comments are contemptible!! It just shows your xenophobia!!

[hotinphoenix]

Can an amnesty work?

How will we separate the criminals from the economic refugees? Will the amnestied migrants qualify for Affirmative Action preferences, even though they can't claim a %u201Clegacy of past discrimination%u201D?

The devil is in the details and nobody in the %u201CSi, se puede%u201D crowd is talking.

Should we trust the president on amnesty? Was he right about WMDs in Iraq? When he said major military operations were over? In taking us to war the first place?

Some suggest America has no right to deport because %u201Cwe are a nation of immigrants.%u201D Yes, legal immigrants. Historically, we have deported gate crashers. Thus, we are a nation that deports, too.

Is it cruel to deport? No, because illegals accept the risk of deportation when they enter this country. Also, an amnesty will invite more illegal immigration.

Besides, who will do the jobs Americans won't do when the illegals become Americans? More illegals?

Finally, when illegals are deported, they are sent to their home countries, not to Siberia!

Say "no" to amnesty.