Comments on: How Online Gamblers Unmasked Cheaters

60 Minutes/Washington Post Joint Investigation Questions Honesty, Security Of Gambling Sites

[brian9194x]

As is Helmuth''s mouth! None of this can be duplicated in the online game so

--there is a chat box that is very lively and if you want the "live trash talking experience" than you have the choice to play live. If I want to play online then you should not worry about that. not all of us are able to go to a casino after work for a few hours.

IT IS NOT POKER FOOLS!!!!

--that''s funny, I played online my entire career. played a live tourney and won 2 live tourneys in the same night. talking 90-150 player field. don''t tell me online poker isn''t real. I would take you down live or online.

BTW I have never lost 1 cent of my money online!!! And never will! BAN THIS TRASH FOR GOOD OF THE GAME!!!!!!!!

--you have the option of playing live or online. you decide. but sir, you will not decide for me.

[brian9194x]

steelcurtin you obviously are a live player who is mad at the impact of online poker. let me break it down for you.

So i guess this whole potripper story is just a figment of cbs and a few others imagination!!

-nobody said that. it is an isolated incident that affects a small minority of players because the majority of players don''t play on that site.

Tells are not a big part of the game??? Play Phil Ivey in a hand or 2 and say that. His eyes are the biggest part of his game!!!!

--if this is true than why is Phil Ivey still a huge winner online? why has he grossed almost 9 mil since 2007 online? physical tells are not as big of part of the game as you make it. if anything online poker is harder than live.

[brian9194x]

I highly doubt Party Poker stole your money. For one party poker is a publically traded company and very legit. I also cashed out money from party poker and had no problem. I am sure there is a reasonable explanation and probably still can get your money.

Considering Party Poker makes a ton of money on a daily basis from rake, your money would not be worth it to them to steal. I don''t know how much your cash out was but mine was for a pretty significant amount of money and I cashed out more than once.

Contact customer service again and tell them your issue. I would be willing to bet if you go about it the correct way, you will get your check.

If you stick to the mainstream sites, online poker is perfectly safe. If it wasn''t safe or rigged/etc.. then why would high stakes players risk millions on them?? They wouldn''t. Let''s ask Phil Ivey or Patrick Antonius if there is a big difference in the actual game of poker.

[dublklik]

Not only cheating but also stealing your money. I played for awhile with Party Poker a few years ago and tried to close my account and have a check sent to me for the balance. After waiting a few weeks and no check, I sent an email inquiry. They responded that my check had been mailed. After waiting a couple more weeks, I again inquired. This time they wanted me to verify my address. I emailed them my address and said that this is the same address that they sent their Party Poker baseball cap to me, so what it the problem sending me my check? No response. This bunch is based in Gibraltar so a person has no recourse in getting their money. I recently checked my account, which is still open, and the balance is zero, so they stole my money.

[dreamline78]

Tells in a live game are way overrated by most. It''s still all about betting patterns, and what the other player is capable of doing based on what you''ve seen before. A tell can tip the scale in a close decision, but I very rarely base a decision on a hand solely on a tell.

The point is, poker is poker, whether it''s being dealt by a human, or a random number generator. Your Kings will get beat by an Ace almost one out of three times, whether you play live or online. It just seems you take a greater frequency of bad beats because you''re dealt so many more hands.

[brian9194x]

Skillgamer is exactly right. Imo it''s much safer playing online poker versus an illegal poker room that me personally would have to play at due to my location.

And lets not forget that cheating happens in live poker. So insinuating that cheating doesn''t happen in live poker or other games, casino''s, and businesses is FALSE.

[mattnxtc]

"I have been playing online poker for 6 years and i think every one of the sites should be shut down.
You cannot hack a live game!!! From my exprience it isnt poker at all and anyone who supports it on here has something to gain by keeping it legal im sure. We may not be able to go after the sites but i hope they hang every player that promtes this as POKER!!! ITS NOT POKER!!! IT NEVER WILL BE POKER!!! And casinos do not let their employees play at the tables unlike these online sites do!!!! "

- You are correct, everybody who wants to keep online poker has something to gain:

1. Freedom to play
2. Money to be made

Why wouldnt I want to keep a game open that I love to play and that I have made some money at from playing and learning?

As to why its not poker, you will have to explain it. It seems that all of these "online Pros" have turned in some great live results (Moneymaker, Raymer both played online prior to winning). So obviously it is poker enough that online players can go to live events and win large amounts.

[skillgamer]

Posted by steelcurtin8
"From my exprience it isnt poker at all and anyone who supports it on here has something to gain by keeping it legal im sure."
--
Sorry, your experiences aren''t statistically significant. (I know that always hurts to hear.)

What do we have to gain by keeping it legal? Let''s see. If I''m an American and I want to play poker tonight, I can either do it from the comfort of my house with no commute time, no gas money, and more efficient game costs (rakes), or I can get in my car and drive 1-15 hours to the nearest brick-and-mortar cardroom. Hmm.

Online poker is the most efficient way to play poker, and it''s the only way that is feasible for many people. For me to have gone to the nearest brick-and-mortar casino to play as many hands of poker as I do online would take more than all of my waking hours each day. I''d rather not quit my job to be able to play a game, and the fact that some kids on the internet feel that there''s something spooky about entropy-based random number generators isn''t really enough to sway me here. Not to mention people raising families who only get a few hours a week of leisure time, or disabled people who are unable to leave their house...

And online poker is poker. Poker, by its very definition, is a game of strategic decisions, none of which are inherently dependent on being able to see your opponents'' faces or being able to see a physical dealer shuffle a physical deck. For more information, consult your local mathematician.

[skillgamer]

Posted by steelcurtin8
"From my exprience it isnt poker at all and anyone who supports it on here has something to gain by keeping it legal im sure."
--
Sorry, your experiences aren''t statistically significant. (I know that always hurts to hear.)

What do we have to gain by keeping it legal? Let''s see. If I''m an American and I want to play poker tonight, I can either do it from the comfort of my house with no commute time, no gas money, and more efficient game costs (rakes), or I can get in my car and drive 1-15 hours to the nearest brick-and-mortar cardroom. Hmm.

Online poker is the most efficient way to play poker, and it''s the only way that is feasible for many people. For me to have gone to the nearest brick-and-mortar casino to play as many hands of poker as I do online would take more than all of my waking hours each day. I''d rather not quit my job to be able to play a game, and the fact that some kids on the internet feel that there''s something spooky about entropy-based random number generators isn''t really enough to sway me here. Not to mention people raising families who only get a few hours a week of leisure time, or disabled people who are unable to leave their house...

And online poker is poker. Poker, by its very definition, is a game of strategic decisions, none of which are inherently dependent on being able to see your opponents'' faces or being able to see a physical dealer shuffle a physical deck. For more information, consult your local mathematician.

[pfpadmin]

Now funding an account is suppose to be illegal!

Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act. The rule relies on financial institutions performing due diligence on corporate customers to ensure they''re not processing online gambling transactions.

American financial institutions have been given until Dec. 1, 2009 to comply with the regulations designed to block online gambling transactions, including those made through credit cards, electronic funds transfers and checks. The rule goes into effect Jan. 19, 2009.

My US postal money order just cleared a poker rooms cashier. So they want banks to stop funding gaming accounts, but the US post office can still fund them.

[pfpadmin]

marcuspratt

Let me try this one more time. Try anwsering thhe questions asked of you.

First I agree with the story that these two sites were caght in a scandle. This was over a year ago and most online players already knew about this and will never play the sites again.
Second Online gaming is not illegal I posted the wire act laws broken down for you.
Third I do know cheating happens, but not at this level.

Now answer this.
1:
A: Why is this news close to two years later we asked several news stations to help us when we (The players) were breaking this story?
B: Do you think the NFL which oppsoes online gaming and had a contract with the NFL had anything to do with this story?
C: Do you think that the timeing of this story has anything to do with the fact the American financial institutions have been given until Dec. 1, 2009 to comply with the regulations designed to block online gambling transactions, including those made through credit cards, electronic funds transfers and checks. The rule goes into effect Jan. 19, 2009.

2: Porvide me a federal law trhat says online gaming is illegal not that its illegal for funding an account or to accept a players bet.

3: How many poker sites are open and how many have been caught doing this same thing? 2 out of 2000+ is not bad.

[mrvolleyba11]

as a non-online gambler I just find it absurd that in a supposedly "free United States of America" the federal government thinks that they have any right to restrict any ADULTS choice to gamble online! its all about control and maintaining it and the goverment feels it may lose it by allowing online gaming. Absolute BS!!!

[victoria_i]

Hi, minor_diety!

Good point! NO lottery can be called a skill-based game! In fact, a famous gambling author, (initials
F.S.), states (humourously, but all too truly and sadly), that the odds of winning lotters are SO great, that it makes casino owners look like philanthropists!

P.S. My game is Roulette. I''ve been practicing since casinos first opened in Atlantic City in 1978....ad though I still do lose on occasion, I now win more often than I lose! RULE NO. 1: Quit Whilst You Are Ahead! (Upper class English people use fancy spelling...so, why can''t I? : ) RULE NO. 2) Give BIG tips to hard-working casino employees. (Oh, if only I could give a tip to employees at internet casinos....and a "tip" (ie: taxes) to the US Government! MAKE ONLINE GAMING AND GAMBLING LEGAL IN THE U.S......N O W !!!!!!

[chynum]

I am a professional poker player and have been for 15 years. I know most of the widely recognized faces from television as well as many other respected players who are not in the public eye. While there is no way to prove the overall integrity of anyone by word of mouth or general concensus, most professionals would not have engaged in the behavior of these few though many are not surprised that one of the conspirators is Russ Hamilton. I do not find it surprising that the lone "professional" interviewed by CBS, Mr. Whittles, whose only notoriety is a few WSOP final tables, was the basis for your pro''s perspective. Mr. Whittles himself is an operator of a website which does not always concern itself with reporting facts and would not be considered by anyone I know as being a stand-up sort of person. If CBS wants to do an accurate portrayal of internet poker they would be best served to research some of the people on the other side of the aisle, so to speak. For every Russ Hamilton there are tens of thousands who would never consider cheating. How about if we legalize and set guidelines in the good old USA for a pastime the majority are clearly in favor of. This bit of reporting fails to paint an accurate portrayal of the overall industry and the lack of input from the "real" poker community is a poor ommission.

[victoria_i]

For those who want to help make the USA again, "The Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave", (as one needs both freedom, and bravery, to be able to gamble/game online), please feel free(!) to visit:.....

www.pokerplayersalliance.org
....
It''s mainly for poker players...but accepts ANYONE who wants to play ANY casino game, legally in the USA, once more!

(P.S.: to paraphrase: "....first they made third trimester abortions illegal...but I was not involved in that, and so I said nothing. Then they made online gaming illegal...but I was not involved in that, and so I said nothing..........."

PLEASE HELP!!!!! FREEDOM IS AT STAKE HERE, AS WELL AS MONEY!

[brian9194x]

Wow. Even though this is only one forum and thread about this 60 min story, and i guess you could say one of many battle grounds for our fight for the regulation of online poker in The United States, I''m proud to say I was a part of this. Keep it up and great job everyone!!!!

[victoria_i]

Internet Gaming in other countries has NOT increased mob influence, nor increased hedonism in these other countries. Their governmennts, for the most part, tax and regulate internet gaming. The government gets MONEY! Winners also get money...& losers vow to be more careful next time. Why can''t we have this in the USA? To gamble online, one needs freedom and bravery. How can the USA say it is the "Land of the Free & The Home of the Brave" -- while making internet gaming illegal?? Internet gaming, in fact, can even make people MORE RESPONSIBLE! If one limits winnings to $100 a day, this would make $36,500 a year, gross. If one tries to make that in a 2 week "vacation" to Atlantic City or Las Vegas, one would have to make $2600 a DAY! Impossible for most people! LIMITING daily online winnings makes for more responsibility in gaming...and perhaps this sense of responsiblilty can filter into other areas of life as well! But ONLY if online gaming becomes LEGAL & REGULATED in the US! Those who say it''s morality are mistaken, too: SPORTS BETTING, AND BETTING ON FANTASY SPORTS, ONLINE, ARE STILL LEGAL IN THE US! Betting on THESE, however, takes far more money to be successful than at casino games. It''s SO obvious: RICH POLITICIANS JUST DON''T WANT SMART, NON-RICH PEOPLE TO MAKE ANY MONEY FROM THE EASE OF BETTING AT HOME. My motto right now is: I WANT TO PAY MORE TAXES, BUT THE GOVERNMENT WON''T LET ME!

[dreamline78]

Yes, Marc, sadly you are way out of your depth, and I absolutely don''t mean that in a derrogatory way. You''ve proven you can be pretty articulate (when you''re not calling the rest of us retards), which leads me to believe that you''ve achieved some level of success in whatever career path you have chosen. However, if your knowledge of the online poker industry, and the Internet cheating scandal, doesn''t extend beyond what you learnied in a 12-minute report by 60 minutes and one article in the Washington Post, then you clearly don''t have the knowledge about this issue to argue your point effectively.

[dreamline78]

Yes, Michael, we appreciate your support on the issue. It is such a releif to see that there are still people who CAN see the forest. One curious question that no one seems to address is this: if there is actually merit in prohibitng people from gambling online, why did Senators Bill Frist and Jon Kyl feel the need to attach the UIGEA, at the last minute, to the completely-unrelated Ports Security bill, a must-pass bill that was voted on during the very last session of Congress before they recessed for the 2006 elections? This was an absolutely underhanded and cheap trick to pass a bill that had not a chance in passing with a straight-up vote.

[marcuspratt]

I think I''m clearly "out of depth" and I think this expose'' should clearly be dismissed as garbage reporting. LMFAO, you people are retards, honestly.