Comments on: The Fuss Over Fish

Lesley Stahl Reports On The Debate On What To Do To Protect Endangered Salmon

[ivivy]

Another horror story of how our government is wasting billions of our tax dollars on "trying" to save the chinook salmon. I was stunned and embarrassed for the City of New Orleans and the hundreds of thousands of men, women, children and elderly people who were told there was not enough money to repair levees. The US Corp of Engineers, Government, Congress and the President should be ashamed for choosing fish, over human life. It is time for the American taxpayers to demand accountabiltiy for frivilous spending of government officials. It is no wonder the United States is in such dire straits. Follow the money....iivy

[bar4d]

The aluminum industry no longer exists on the Columbia. Alcoa closed their two plants and moved them to foreign countries several years ago.

The four dams offer NO flood control. They are run-of-the-river dams with locks, built for barge traffic. In other words the water that comes in passes thru. So they can''t store water for power generation in mid summer, the fall and winter, when it is needed the most.

The river it at low flow after spring run-off and produces the barest amount of power the rest of the year.

The Port of Lewiston is mired in silt and must constantly be dredged by the Corps to keep a 16 ft deep channel open.

Worse, Potlatch discharges one million gallons of super heated poisonous water into the Snake at Lewiston each day.

[kaibab3]

Thank you, CBS News. Rebroadcasting this 60 Minutes story was a good step in bringing public attention to the salmon crisis of the Pacific Northwest. The Columbia/Snake River wild salmon are being decimated by the four lower Snake dams, and the federal government is doing little to reverse their decline.

As Leslie Stahl emphasizes, the efforts that have been implemented to protect salmon have cost billions in taxpayer dollars while doing little to save salmon. As stewards of our natural environment who rely on wild salmon for our own wellbeing, we have a duty to protect these precious fish. The limited benefits of the four outdated dams on the lower Snake River are replaceable; but extinction is forever. We must fight to protect these remarkable fish by demanding that the federal government remove four dinosaur dams.

And by the way, reporters have the license to inject themselves and their own responses in these types of feature stories. Those of you who denigrate Ms. Stahl for her work simply don''t like the facts that she reveals.

[fstnat]

It seems to me that very few people are interested in really finding a solution to the problem. One person says to tear down all the dams and the fish will come back. No ---- not by our experience - it is not just about the dams - there are other very serious challenges that are affecting our fish runs. Until we can find answers to why the fish are not returning in the same numbers to the streams that don''t have
dam(n)s(by some people''s thoughts) we are missing the point. There are streams in Canada that have the same low counts that don''t have dams. What if the international fisheries are destroying our fish runs and we worry about dams and find it is too late for all of the salmon runs!How sad it will be to take away one of the most renewable resources (electric power from dams) that there is and find that no the fish do not come back. Oooopss now what. Again it is not just the dams and by focusing our energies on that one thing we may very well totally miss the problem.

[sydneydreami]

The title of this story says it all. This is not simply a "fuss over fish." That is what the ranchers and farmers and power industries want us to think because it trivializes the ecological catastrophe that has been caused by the lower Snake River dams (among many others). Working on behalf of a small number of wealthy and politically connected players, our government has systematically worked to destroy an entire ecosystem. We don''t need the power provided by the lower Snake River dams; it can be replaced today by wind and solar alternatives. And we certainly don''t need to continue to subsidize unsustainable farming and ranching practices in arid areas. The cheapest solution, the only solution, is to remove the dams. Everybody knows that by now, yet the government continues to waste billions of taxpayer dollars to appease the powerful.

[bar4d]

60 minutes stated the aluminum industry needs power created from the four dams.

The aluminum industry longer exists. They''ve been shut down for several years with no plans to.

There is 4,600 miles of pristine spawning habitat above the dams. The Salmon River, Clearwater River, the rivers in Oregon and their tribs are some.

The four dams are failures in performing the uses intended when compared to their cost to operate, close to one billion per year. Pro dam folks will rail about power production. The dams are run-of-the-river dams constructed as a series of locks for barge traffic. They produce peak power loads in the spring when there is a power glut. They can''t store water to produce power when needed the most in the summer and fall.

The barge traffic is less than 700 trips annually. Salmon and steelhead smolt trips account for 120 of the 700. Barges pay no lockage fees. To put this in perspective, 21,000 vessels use the Panama Canal. 15,000 vessels use the St. Lawrence Seaway. These ships pay lockage fees to support operation. The Port of Lewiston is on the verge of bankruptcy and supported by a special tax the citizens must anti up each year.

Only 37 farmers irrigate from ONLY one dam. Take the dams out and they simply lower their pumps to the new river level. The government pays them millions in pumping subsidies anyway.

[ruby294]

Thank you 60 Minutes for running an update on this issue. The four Snake River dams are a serious example of government largess benefiting only a small number of people. We should remember our history! The fiscal conservative, Eisenhower, was actually the biggest reason these dams almost didn%u2019t get built! He resisted them because he saw them for what they were; federal subsidies to a small group of beneficiaries (shipping, aluminum industry) in the NW. But a group of special interests prevailed. Now they are gutting what is left of a 5 million year old genetic history (and calling 180 thousand salmon in 2008 is a %u201Crecord run%u201D is a sick and sad whitewash). If the dams come down we will get REAL record runs of salmon back. Rail lines will deliver goods that barges do now without the constant and expensive dredging, and the region will have a river that runs free and offers a multitude of recreational and tourism benefits. A free Snake River will bring salmon and prosperity rather than government waste and biological tragedy. Thanks to 60 minutes for letting the American people in on this most grotesque example of Big Government waste!

[idahoan55]

Excellent feature, well done Ms. Stahl.

But it is discouraging that, after seven years,we hear essentially the same exact story on this issue. When will the federal government stop this ineffective taxpayer spending regime?

Extinction is looming, the wild salmon of the Snake River Basin don''t have much time--we could spend billions more on additional ineffective techno-fixes, or invest in removing the lower Snake dams and replacing their benefits.

[pmw87]

Thank you, 60 Minutes. Shedding light on this important issue is key to restoring populations of wild salmon in the Pacific Northwest. As Ms. Stahl reports, past attempts to protect endangered salmon have proven just as inadequate as they are burdensome on the American taxpayer. Not only are salmon a treasured natural wonder, they provide employment, nutrition and recreation to families across the Northwest. We have a responsibility to protect these marvelous fish, and we cannot let four obsolete dams get in our way. We must urge the federal government to allow their removal. This will allow us to implement safe alternatives to replace the few benefits of these dams while simultaneously protecting our way of life by restoring our miraculous wild salmon.

[epetlock]

Thank you 60 Minutes for airing this story. This story is not just a regional issue, but rather an issue of national importance. It is a national disgrace that we have allowed our Pacific coast salmon to become so imperiled. This year%u2019s collapse of the pacific salmon is all the evidence we need, to know that something is terribly wrong. No matter what you blame the collapse on, one fact remains- we are losing yet another important natural system that has survived for tens of thousands of years through all kinds of fluctuations in climate, precipitation and temperature and in less that 100 years we have nearly destroyed it. I don%u2019t think that any sane or intelligent person can argue against the fact, with any credibility, that human impact is the reason these fish are in danger. There are many factors including dams, pollution, harvest, climate change and the list goes on. One thing we can say, the common denominator in all of theses is human impact. So now the question is, are we willing to clean up the mess that we have made or are we going to continue down the path of our own eventual self-destruction just so that we can continue to be wasteful and lazy?

[ruby294]

Thank you 60 Minutes for running an update on this issue. The four Snake River Dams are a serious example of government largess benefiting a small number of people. Read your history! The fiscal conservative, Eisenhower, was actually the biggest reason these dams almost didn%u2019t go in earlier than they did! He resisted them because he saw them for what they were in his time; federal subsidies to a small group of beneficiaries (shipping, aluminum industry). Now they are gutting what is left of a 5 million year old genetic history (and calling 180 thousand salmon in 2008 is a %u201Crecord run%u201D is a sick and sad whitewash). If the dams come down we will get REAL record runs of salmon back. Rail lines will deliver goods that barges do now without the constant and expensive dredging, the the small amount of power they produce (4%) will easily be replaced by wind and conservation, and the region will have a river that runs free and offers a multitude of recreational and tourism benefits. A free Snake River will bring salmon and prosperity rather than government waste and biological tragedy. Thanks to 60 minutes for letting the American people in on this most grotesque example of Big Government waste!

[natbrandon78]

fstnat, you''re right that changing ocean dynamics, particularly in the face of climate change, are also affecting salmon runs. But you miss the point about the dams. Those dams are making an already serious situation worse and could mean the difference between extinction for certain Columbia-Snake River salmon populations, 13 of which are endangered! These fish do not need any additional adversity and though you are right to point out what''s happening in ocean, fixing climate change on the scale needed to affect the entire Pacific Ocean in time to save the fish that are dying now is an astronomically expensive endeavor, not to mention scientifically puzzling. Plus with the millions of dollars wasted every year on trucking those fish around the dams, it is a hollow argument to say that breaching the dams would be too expensive. Indeed, it may be the only way to save the fish. Again, I applaud 60 Minutes for taking on this emotionally and scientifically-charged subject and doing the reporting that needs to be done. Thanks CBS!

[fstnat]

Hmm - instead of everyone digging in on their side of the argument how about finding solutions based on real world data, not emotion/feelings. We live in an area where there are no dams below us - our streams feed directly into the Columbia river within a few miles and have been affected by the cycles of fish numbers almost as much as those above the dams. According to fish and wildlife our creek is considered pristine and very healthy. The last several years there were great runs of coho with some ups and downs in the mix like this last year. These are cycles that we can not fully explain. Yes people and dams affect the natural world.I have heard of a practical solution that could get most of the fish downstream of the dams. Direct the fish to a very large long pipe under the dam-make sort of a tunnel for the fish to pass through.In the years the runs are minimal the fishing for the most part is already cut off - that is as it should be. In my opinion, there is an imbalance in ocean of some kind either from international fishing and/or a natural imbalance of too many predators or disease or something way more complex than. Maybe CBS could investigate what is going on out in the ocean.
Although taking the dams out seems to be an emotional favorite of some - the cost to the area in floods (potential loss of life) and transportation of food, farming etc is staggering. That is not going to help our stream or the run of fish. Look west to the ocean!

[jrsalmon2]

Thanks to 60 minutes for running this important story! I can''t believe the "reasons" people put forward to explain the tragic decline of five protected salmon stocks (one of which is already extinct) over the past 40 years and the billions wasted on hairbrained schemes to "protect" these commercially valuable fish. "Warming oceans", "native American fishing", "terns" -- none of these "reasons" explain why Snake River salmon populations began a precipitous decline just after the lower four dams on the Snake River were built and none of them explain why (17 years after these populations were listed as endangered) not a single legally-adequate recovery plan has been developed by the agencies responsible for restoring these fish. I''m also fascinated by how many of your viewers are "concerned" about the global warming impacts of four relatively small dams (among thousands of hydroelectric dams in the US) on the Snake River -- I''m sure none of those commentors owns an SUV and they all turn the lights out when they leave the room ;-).

[patford6]

Thank you for re-airing this story. The fact that an 8-year old story on Columbia and Snake River salmon is still largely correct today is sad but true. The waste of American tax dollars on pretending to restore salmon has continued in these years. But the story''s characterization of "the Northwest''s beloved dams" is less true all the time for at least four of them. The four lower Snake dams that are driving Snake River salmon to extinction have lost any iconic status they might once have shared in. For the good of taxpayers and of Northwest progress, it''s time they go. Let''s spend salmon money on something that will work to restore salmon and salmon jobs.

[nonydog]

Terrific synopsis of a complex issue. Many of us who want the dams to come down realize that a lot of work needs to be done to replace the dams'' (limited) benefits. But for several billion dollars, we should be able to do that. And taking out the dams won''t, by itself, save the salmon, but with the dams still there the fish don''t have a chance.
Restoring the salmon is not just about fish; it''s about restoring the people and ecosystems who need the fish to live. Thanks for running this, 60 minutes.

[natbrandon78]

Thank you, CBS, for this important and amazing story. As someone who cares very much about the future of our planet and its wild places, I am extremely concerned by how poorly the salmon are doing on the West Coast, especially in the Columbia-Snake River Basin. Last year, only four Snake River sockeye returned to their headwaters at Redfish Lake in Idaho. Just four fish! Those are all that made it through the four outdated dams on the lower Snake River. We have to do something. These dams have to go. The Bush Administration has failed to even consider this option, but it is a necessary first step. Those fish ladders and techno-fixes are just a waste of taxpayer money and are not working to restore the fish. Congress must pass legislation to authorize removal of these dams. Thank you CBS for shedding light on the crisis that is happening with our salmon on the West Coast.

[dboyer6]

Instead of rerunning an 8-year-old story, 60 Minutes should try doing some actual reporting.

First, those millions of dollars spent on salmon recover are paid by Northwest ratepayers, not the federal taxpayer.

Second, below is a link to a story reported last week by the Columbian Basin Bulletin on a record return for sockeye salmon returning to the Columbia River this year. http://www.cbbulletin.com/282092.aspx

[pcwm2008]

What planet do you folks live on? Gas is over $4.00 per gallon; people are losing their livelihoods right and left; and you put on a piece to "save the salmon". How about a piece about saving the "people of the U.S.".
It isn''t how much people of the NW are saving on their power bills, it''s where would the power come from if the Dams were removed. Coal fired plants. Not on your life. Environmentalists would fight building more of those till their last breath (or unt il the last light goes out). Nueclear (sp) power plants. Same answer. I know, wind power! Of course then the question is, where does the power come from when there isn''t any wind.
To H*** with the Salmon. Let''s think about the people of this country, and how they''re going to make it in these times.

[goodrich26]

I have but one thing to say about mna''s arrogance and stupidity in causing the salmon disaster, and the fact that salmon belong to the world, not just the Pacific Northwest: "Mr. Bush, Tear down those dams!"