Comments on: Armed And Dangerous

Law Bans Sale Of Firearms To People With A History Of Severe Mental Illness

[davidbadgley]

This is a follow up to my previous post and some of the comments I've read. Does anybody think that we are immune to the same attitudes and actions taken by those societies which have given up their core values for promises of safety? i.e., Nazi Germany, Facist Italy, Franco's Spain, Pinochet's Chile and so on. You may not believe it but our Constitution and Republic are truly in danger by those who seek a safer society at,what must be viewed, as any cost. No single dictator may take power this time, having learned the lessons of those fallen ideologies. But be sure, it can happen here. And,truthfully, I believe this is just one of the first shots to be fired in the next great struggle of humankind. That of human rights versus that of tyranny!

[secondamend]

Dear freeinAZ,

Here is another tidbit of information for those that think persons with "mental disorders" and espcially postpartum depression should have the same rights as a person of sound mind and body.

This info was taken from suicide.org - a major suicide prevention, awareness and support program on the internet.

It states that "About one in one thousand women will develop postpartum psychosis, with symptoms usually occurring within two weeks. The symptoms include hallucinations, delusions, and quick mood swings. Essentially, women with postpartum psychosis lose touch with reality. And they are at an extremely high risk for suicide and for infanticide."

We should do everything possible to keep firearms out of the hands of people with this mindset - including being in a gun control database and striped of your second ammendment rights.

You tell me if it makes sense to allow someone who is most likely suicidal and INFANTICIDAL to be allowed access to purchase firearms.

Why must we always protect the guilty and not the innocent?

[secondamend]

Dear freeinAZ,

In response to "Is this true? That some you wouldn't mind that a person's medical records, when containing a mental illness (this includes postpartum depression), be made public just on the off-chance that these people might snap?

You realize that people with relatively mild bouts of mental illness could lose their jobs and homes and possibly their children?

Pretty cold. I might even say a little narcissistic and maybe a little sociopathic."

post partum depression and being ordered/recomended by a judge to be institutionalized like Mr. Cho was is not really comparable. Put mental illness on a gun control list for only selected individuals to see? My vote is a resounding YES! You are rediculous to say that "people will lose their jobs, homes, and even their children if on such a list." It is because of people who think just like you that Cho was not listed in a gun control database "for privacy reasons" and he was able to purchase the guns legally in the first place!!!!!!!!

[joyo8729]

If we outlaw guns for crazy people, only crazy people will have guns. Because that's what crazy people do - get guns against the law. The solution is, we ALL need to have guns, so that when the crazies attack, we can kill them before they kill us. We sold guns to Contras, Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein. Of course we can sell guns to red blooded Americans, so be it they're mentally feeble. Is that crazy? No, that's America! So shut up and shoot.

[jackles4]

why do americans concentrate on how to keep guns 'out' of peoples hands.that is impossible.what harm is there letting a law abiding citizen carry a gun on a nyc subway,or a college,or even a post office?there is no harm.at least give people a chance to defend themselves,not be a sitting duck.ANYONE in america will always be able to get a gun no matter what laws there are.

[jackles4]

why do americans concentrate on how to keep guns 'out' of peoples hands.that is impossible.what harm is there letting a law abiding citizen carry a gun on a nyc subway,or a college,or even a post office?there is no harm.at least give people a chance to defend themselves,not be a sitting duck.ANYONE in america will always be able to get a gun no matter what laws there are.

[jackles4]

why do americans concentrate on how to keep guns 'out' of peoples hands.that is impossible.what harm is there letting a law abiding citizen carry a gun on a nyc subway,or a college,or even a post office?there is no harm.at least give people a chance to defend themselves,not be a sitting duck.ANYONE in america will always be able to get a gun no matter what laws there are.

[jackles4]

why do americans concentrate on how to keep guns 'out' of peoples hands.that is impossible.what harm is there letting a law abiding citizen carry a gun on a nyc subway,or a college,or even a post office?there is no harm.at least give people a chance to defend themselves,not be a sitting duck.ANYONE in america will always be able to get a gun no matter what laws there are.

[davidbadgley]

Dear Steve, This is plain and simple. Report the statistics on the "mentally ill" as regards violent crime. The "mentally ill" statistics are roughly the same as that of the general population and they're many times more likely to be victims of violent crime than the general population So, who should fear who? You repeatedly use the term "severely mentally ill" with no genuine definition of that term, just short clips of past tragic events which serve to incite and not illuminate. I personally am suffering a hell brought about by such stigma and discrimination. My odyssey has made it clear to me how the "mentally ill" have been made the scapegoat and whipping boy of a society bewildered by violent crime and a media eager to cash in on that bewilderment. Ask Mike Wallace if he was ever hospitalized for his depression on which he has so bravely and candidly commented. If the answer is yes, tell him, "Mike, you are considered severely mentally ill in most, if not all, these United States." Steve, if you wish to tell a real story, tell that one, not the distorted, sensationalized one you told tonight. Better yet, expose the abuses suffered by those with emotional disabilities at the mercy of a "paranoid" society and power hungry press. I won't hold my breath. Yours, David

[jackles4]

why do americans concentrate on how to keep guns 'out' of peoples hands.that is impossible.what harm is there letting a law abiding citizen carry a gun on a nyc subway,or a college,or even a post office?there is no harm.at least give people a chance to defend themselves,not be a sitting duck.ANYONE in america will always be able to get a gun no matter what laws there are.

[jackles4]

why do americans concentrate on how to keep guns 'out' of peoples hands.that is impossible.what harm is there letting a law abiding citizen carry a gun on a nyc subway,or a college,or even a post office?there is no harm.at least give people a chance to defend themselves,not be a sitting duck.ANYONE in america will always be able to get a gun no matter what laws there are.

[clydeduck]

I was outraged at S. Kroft's characterization of the "mentally ill" as psychotic, delusional, and a danger to themselves and others.
There are no strict definitions of the term "mentally ill". Depending on the jurisdiction, this catch-all phrase could cover anyone suffering from chronic, mild depression to Charles Manson.
For those, like myself, who have dealt for years with this debilitating and torturous disease, and who, in seeking treatment are labeled "mentally ill", I must rebuke your most casual and insensitive generalizations.
Though many who suffer from a chronic depressive syndrome are labeled mentally ill, this certainly has no relationship to the extreme conditions of delusional psychosis as exhibited at Virginia Tech.
To make such an association is to add insult to injury for those fighting this epidemic psycho/social condition.
This kind of labeling prevents many, who suffer in silence, to avoid treatment for fear of social rejection.
I truly believe that you and your editors have done damage to the plight of harmless, law-abiding individuals who are afraid to be stigmatized as "mentally ill".
Clyde S Allen
Helotes, TX

[freeinaz]

I have to ask this. It is a follow-up to my post a while back.

So are you people saying that we should sacrifice the rights (and possibly lives) of a few for the good of the many?

Is this true? That some you wouldn't mind that a person's medical records, when containing a mental illness (this includes postpartum depression), be made public just on the off-chance that these people might snap?

You realize that people with relatively mild bouts of mental illness could lose their jobs and homes and possibly their children?

Pretty cold. I might even say a little narcissistic and maybe a little sociopathic.

[genome2]

I sought out mental help many years ago.As someone who has used the mental health system I would not want my records made public because it would open me up to social and economic discrimination. The only reason the mental health system works is because it is anonymous.If my records were made public I would not have sought help and would have shunned the mental health system.Though I don't want my records public i also think its not a good idea to let mentally ill people have guns. There are ways to keep things private ,if law enforcement were the only ones allowed to veiw those records.People could get some type of certified letter or swipe card from law enforcement in order to buy guns effectively taking background checks away from the public.But for all your concern about background checks mister Kroft, If you want one you can get one.You can get them on the black market or steal them like the kids do.

[toniwellen]

1. Privacy rights? Are these people aware of the Patriot Act and all the privacy violations visited upon American citizens by the Bush Administration. We have no more privacy.
2. Some states DO maintain databases that list individuals prohibted from purchasing a firearm due to their mental health history. California is one of those states. We also have a 5 day waiting period. The instant background check and no waiting period is tragic. The Brady law has been eviscerated by the Bush White House in complicity with the gun lobby. A waiting period must be reinstated and yes, people who are found to be a danger to themselves and/or others should certainly not have firearms. Anyone who thinks otherwise is crazy.
Toni Wellen
Coalition Against Gun Violence

[samthetvcat]

part 2
My second concern would be that even assuming there is irrefutable evidence that the 'mentally-ill' (like the seriously mentally ill) commit a higher rate of crimes than 'normal people', was the law narrowly-tailored to address the proportion of the 'mentally-ill' who commit crimes over and above the rate of 'normal' people or is it a dragnet on everybody?

My third concern would be that if the assertion that the 'mentally-ill' (as in like even people who are only mildly depressed) commit a higher degree of crime is actually unfounded, then how is this law any different from gun control and why shouldn't everybody be refused a gun? Oh that's right, 2A.

In sum, the definition of 'mentally-ill' is key, as is the evidence that the 'mentally-ill' commit a higher proportion of crimes. If Congress' law is overinclusive, then Congress' law is not only prejudicial against a disenfranchised class of society, but it's violative of 2A. If it works to reduce the violence then that's great - but is it because an 'at-risk' group was addressed or because gun control works . . . let's at least provide people with the dignity of the truth . . .

[samthetvcat]

part 1
I felt like the 'thought' behind this piece was very fear-driven - meaning somebody started with the theory that if the government passed a law then therefore it must be the correct course of action and because my gut tells me it's right.

Well perhaps it is the right course of action, but perhaps lawmakers were fear-driven too - like if a couple of parents whose kids committed suicide were able to persuade Congress to pass a law requiring labels on anti-depressants warning of the suicide risk that caused doctors to recoil from perscribing them thereby actually causing the suicide rate to skyrocket, wouldn't it have been more prudent to actually follow the logic through with facts to verify? Like there was a lot of support for the warning labels because people just 'knew' that drugs 'messing with kids' heads' was not good - oftentimes progress can be counterintuitive.

What I would have liked to know is what exactly is the definition of 'mentally ill'. When they cited the statistic that 1000 crimes had been committed by mentally ill people, what's the degree of mental illness - like is it anybody who suffers from depression or is it only people who are found criminally insane or is it somewhere in between? This is key because the rationale behind this law is founded on the assertion that mentally ill commit more crimes than 'normal people'.

[maggie455]

Being a parent these days we are faced with the harsh reality of horror that could occur everyday in our schools. Does this horrible, horrible crime not prove once and for all to the American people that we need to secure our schools and neighborhoods by instilling laws that could potentially save lives. Looking at recent magazine articles the number of gun deaths in this country are unmatched in non-warring countries. I don't care if a couple of toes are stepped on in the fight for "civil liberties," if that means that one life may be saved. We need to go farther and deeper in this country regarding gun control. Because, I am for one tired of being scared sending my kids to school.

[gunownerdan]

Criminals prefer unarmed victims
http://www.a-human-right.com

[pilates1-2009]

So it's okay for the mentally ill to purchase a weapon immediately even though they pose a threat to themselves and society and they kill many wonderful people but a female who wants an abortion or especially a mentally ill woman who wants an abortion either has to wait days to get one or has to have approval from parents or a husband to have one or her health records find there way to the internet so she is stalked by prolifers who want to kill her. What a strange society we live in. Barbara