Comments on: Maximum Security Education

How Some Inmates Are Getting A Top-Notch Education Behind Bars

[donnao5]

Okay----hurrah for education: and it is a good pasttime for these incarcerated individuals. However, education does not translate into valuable or responsible members of society. We do not need any more smart, educated people; we need more "good", ethical people....with strong values who understand right and wrong (good and evil)----education in itself, all the courses in the world, does not impart THAT---just look around.

[toldyouso21]

If you put all those people together for every inmate... well.. they should be the ones who decide if education in the prison system is ok or not. After all..that 's probably half of the nation Posted by cg4532 at 02:44 PM : Apr 16, 2007


Well, cg, math is NOT your strong point now is it? currently, there are approximately 2.9 million adults incarcerated in America. This includes halfway houses, prisons, jails, etc. If each of them had 5 relatives working, that would equate to about....15 million supporting relatives. There are 300 million+ people in this country now. So 15 Million is about 5 percent NOT 50%. Add to that the fact that many of the families are poor or barely make any money and the high cost of incarceration and the fact is, that even if 5 or even 10 people per inmate were paying taxes, more than likely that is offset by them getting social assistance AND even then, it is doubtful the could pay enough to take care of their "loved one".

Face it, if there was sooo much love and concern for their "Loved one" "the family" should have done more to ensure they helped each other and that no one had an incentive to commit crimes or that they had a disincentive to commit crimes. No free rides, and since education is free from grades K through 12 and most people learn to read during that time--your daddy learning to read in college is NOT impressive at all. It is really very, very pathetic.

[toldyouso21]

are already paying for their crime. A mind is a terrible thing to waste.
Posted by cg4532 at 02:44 PM : Apr 16, 2007


Let's make this really fair--you be happy your daddy got a free college education on the tax payer (I have no family members in prison that I know of) and we will be happy when your daddy gets out and REPAYS every single penny to the taxpayers for his prison stay, makes restitution to his victims AND pays for that college education. After all, those of us who do not break the law have to pay back the money we use to pay for college--then so should your dad--or since you really feel it is great, we should SPECIFICALLY tax each and every one or you and your relatives for the food, shelter, clothing, education, medical etc. I think you are on to something. If families knew that they would have to bear the financial burden of their family prison members--maybe people would do more to ensure they did not go to prison in the first place.

[toldyouso21]

Sorry, didn't mean to imply that people here only want to give others scraps. The point is, people share best when everything is equal and there is enough to go around. This idea of surplus and helping others can only work when EVERYONE feels helped and everyone feels they are treated equally and fairly. From Affirmative action to amnesty for illegals, certain words being off limits, to free education for criminals-- many people are looking around and seeing that everyone gets some kind of freebie advantage except them. You may think that due to inequities in our society, this has to be so--but consider, for all the inequities...that the people who are being made to pay the price never did the dirt the are being made to pay for.

If we really want great race relations and understanding and welcoming the masses legal or not--then it has to start with us addressing the millions of Americans who have been overlooked or told to suck it up--because the days when people will just suck it up are quickly coming to an end--but since so many are so soft hearted--the question is--why do you want so much for many who deliberately short circuit their lives--when so many others who have done nothing wrong...have yet to be helped?

[cg4532]

I think college in the prison system is GREAT! I was a child of a prison inmate,and I would not mind if my taxes paid for education in the prison system. Unfortunatly, for every prison inmate there is at least 5 or more tax paying relatives. If you put all those people together for every inmate... well.. they should be the ones who decide if education in the prison system is ok or not. After all..that 's probably half of the nation. A higher education for a prison inmates stops a cycle of proverty and crime. Their children see that their parent worked hard for a higher education and seen where no or hardly any education got them, prison. No or hardly any education in our country or any other equals a community of crime. Due to trying to make ends meet or a child seeing that that is what life is like. College in prisons stops circle of provery and crime and gives these men a chance to start a new life so that they can educate their children and provide for their family so that they too, can move to suburbia, where the only crime there is speeding. My father could not read or write before he went to prison, when he got out he had those skills. And one of my favorite memories of my father is him reading a book and laughing out loud. I too, have found the love of reading and i have passed that love to my children. Thank you State Prison for giving that me and my children. Educate don't hate. They are already paying for their crime. A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

[toldyouso21]

Posted by tak54401 at 01:40 PM : Apr 16, 2007

there are at least 2 sides to every issue and though you may not agree with the side that is angered by what Bard is doing--it behooves you to try to understand it. Whether it is racial, sexual, convicts, illegal immigrants etc, people are struggling to obey the law and make it and they are looking around and seeing certain groups getting special treatment. Now, the merits of the treatments to each group could be debated, but what cannot be debated is that while each of these groups benefit; a majority of the people still get no help, no benefits, no preferential treatment, no respite and life is HARD for them too. In truth, if education means soooo much (and it does) then it should be freely given to all BEFORE they enter prison. Just like the playing field in so many areas should be leveled. While I agree that the past 6 years have been hell, I would submit that it will get much worse--this inequity cannot go on and people can only be sooo magnanimous. Here is something my mom said to me long ago: "People with full bellies don't mind if someone eats their leftovers or scraps, but starving or really hungry people will try to kill you for taking their food" The point? Don't want people complaining about illegal immigration? Don't allow it until all working Americans have jobs. Don't want people complaining about this issue--then give free college educations to all people before you start giving it to criminals.

[toldyouso21]

My friend and I talk about this very issue. The inmates have the following. 3 meals a day, Room and board,. Health care,Schooling,TV,Access to computer,and the like. There is a war going on so put them in the service to help the troops since we need more to fight. Gangs could also be used. While the inmates are getting free edication there those who can't for lack of money. There are blind children in this this nation that could be helped by programs for learning and those are not free. I don't feel sorry for inmates as they put themselves there. I am not thankful inmates have everything. I am thankful to be free. No free lunch for inmates. This is my say.
Posted by MichelleM99 at 02:07 PM : Apr 16, 2007

the reason we do not release people from prison to fight is...they have a different view on human life and even loyalty than many people. Imagine the number of friendly fire incidents if we gave weapons to them--imagine the number that would take their anger/frustration/rage "against the man" out on their fellow soldiers as well as innocent civilians. Trust me, you do NOT want these people to fight for us in Iraq--because many would fight AGAINST us. Most people in prison have no love or respect for authority or the kinds of people they preyed on that put them there.

[toldyouso21]

This is so the typical liberal response to everything, Posted by elizalexus at 01:21 PM : Apr 16, 2007

Not all liberals go by these standards (though a lot do) I happen to be a liberal with a few conservative leanings. (which is why I am an independent) I do believe very strongly in the death penalty and I do believe in paying my share of taxes, diplomacy and helping others--but I also believe Americans have a strong obligation to clean their own houses, right their own wrongs and take care of their own first. Though I realize people in prison are there for a variety of crimes and a myriad of reasons, I also believe those who commit crimes forfeit many of the rights afforded to others. The very act of being a criminal means people CHOSE to live outside of societies rules, laws and mores and in fact have CHOSEN to harm those in society who do follow these rules. They should not be afforded benefits--and as someone already mentioned, even private schools are ultimately funded by and benefit from tax payers. I know many recipients of the "old college in prison education"--most are back in prison. for people who truly believe everything boils down to education--it doesn't. It boils down to mind set, opportunity and discipline--just like it does for everyone in this country--just like it DID boil down to that for everyone who OPTED to have the wrong mindset, squandered opportunities and lacked personal discipline to rise above their circumstance.

[michellem99-2009]

My friend and I talk about this very issue. The inmates have the following. 3 meals a day, Room and board,. Health care,Schooling,TV,Access to computer,and the like. There is a war going on so put them in the service to help the troops since we need more to fight. Gangs could also be used. While the inmates are getting free edication there those who can't for lack of money. There are blind children in this this nation that could be helped by programs for learning and those are not free. I don't feel sorry for inmates as they put themselves there. I am not thankful inmates have everything. I am thankful to be free. No free lunch for inmates. This is my say.

[pippermouse]

32 people dead on a college campus. Students working hard and looking forward to the future. They will have none. If this psychopath hadn't killed himself - it's highly possible he could have gotten "educated" and gotten his degree in prison!! Lets continue to feel sorry for the unfortunate losers of this world who make life a living hell for others. Lets reward them and educate them and bring them back to us all as "reformed and college educated GOOD citizens". Yeah right -- my only conclusion is....that this world has gone to hell, with no way out. We are all small animals being stalked by the monsters of this world and nobody gets it.

[tak54401]

These posts are why I consider America the ugliest place in the world. I believe that no place in the world would one see such disheartening stuff. It starts right away and goes on and on, I know not how long, as my textreader is still reading. My heart just sinks deeper and deeper and deeper as I listen. My reaction to what I'm still listening to makes me want to just crawl under a rock and stay there probably forever. I've been feeling that way now for 6 years as I watch American politics, and even though I think the country is moving back a bit, 6 years late, and incredibly slowly and is likely to be incredibly little, based on what I'm hearing now. I'm so sickened by this stuff that I want nothing more than to just quit.

[bgbird69]

What really gets me mad is that I just worked for 4 years to obtain my degree in Public Administration from John Jay College. I did not steal or get a dime of financial aid because I made to much money to qualify . Correction Officer in New York State are the poorest paid correction officers in the state and the surrounding area's but that would be a real story that will never see the light of day.
They say it cost nothing for this program and that may be true but doesn't it cost over $40,000 a year to keep a inmate in a New York State prisons and how much is spent just to put the inmate through the courts and this does not count the medical costs that are ever increasing in the prison system . In conclusion I could go on and on about the problems in the New York State prisons but no one wants to address them because it does not affect them and it's not a story that is popular [ just think if Gov. Spitzer proposed a tax to fund programs in the prisons people would be up in arms ]. I think that most would agree that there is no short term solution to the problems in the prisons but a programs like this is not the answer but I guess it makes some fell good

underpaid and overworked

[elizalexus]

This is so the typical liberal response to everything, based on the false notion that evil in the world can be eradicated by:
1.Being apologist and making excuses for evil behaviour
2. being nice to the evil ones and throwing money at them, whether it be criminals, dictators who hate america, *** offenders, etc ad nauseum
This concept that criminal behavior is caused by a lack of a college education and therefore will be eradicated by such education is abusurd.
Criminal behaviour occurs in all levels of society, including rape and murders by college graduates. Criminal behaviour is caused and cured by chemical,psychological and spritual aspects NOT educational. STop rewarding criminals and start helping those who have worked hard all their lives to afford an education.

[bgbird69]

You people just don't get it. This program is like putting a bandaid on a amputation. I know that the inmates that are in this program have to be a inmate in good standing with no tickets for 1 year and a high school grad ,so this does not affect 90% of the inmates incarcerated. In my ten years as a correction officer in New York State I have come across a wide variety of inmates. What I have seen is that most can't read or write english and many spanish speaking inmates can't speak or understand english [ I have asked any inmate who was translating for me if the inmate was born in the United States and if they were not how long they have been in this country and most have been here for 10+ years or were born here ]. The second problem [and it has been stated here ] is what do these inmated do with this educations once they get out. I have two question for Bard , first, how many of these inmates who have graduated did they offer teaching assistant jobs when they get out and second can correction officers go to school at Bard for free . I will bet not one was offered a job and I would have to pay full tution and it is a safe bet because they would have said it on the show . As with most prisons and the programs in the prison most do nothing for these inmates. So programs like this do nothing for the real problems in the prisons


CORRECTION OFFICER SINCE 1997

[pippermouse]

luke you truly "get it". Never heard from the bleeding hearts once they have to think about their families being murdered or that they have had to work their whole lives to pay for their own kids college tuition. It never seems to affect them so it's really easy to give "pity parties" to the losers who are in jail for a reason. For those sympathetic people who have worked hard all their lives to pay their own way in life - and are STILL sympathetic to the criminal.............?? There are some things in life that I will NEVER EVER understand.

[luke19811]

Bard College should spend their money more wisely. I know a lot of people that deserve a free college education that haven't raped or killed to get it. I can see offering this to the victim's families or even the children of these prisoners, but not the prisoners themselves.

We need more Arizona "tent prisons." We don't need to keep making prison life look so good.

[toldyouso21]

Why should an old woman feed a young man who is not my child?, Go and get a job. Posted by tonnto at 10:54 AM : Apr 16, 2007

Many ex cons (educated or not) do not actually want legitimate employment. When they discover that their degree in philosophy does not guarantee a job or through the prison release program they are only subject to minimum wage and that is almost impossible to live on...they quickly slide back into old habits. We must remember people do not suspend being human in prison or when they get out. The same impetus that drove most to steal and sell drugs (to get STUFF) will be the same demon that plagues them when they get out. Face it, many people in jail are there for a drug related offense. When a person can make 1500.00 to 8,000.00 or more a WEEK selling drugs, it is hard to reconcile that to a minimum wage job with no benefits or even a white collar job, where they must kiss butt, "play the game" just to make 25K to 55K a year. --We must remember the criminal's credo: "It ain't a crime unless you get caught" until that point--many feel the risk and rewards are worth it.

[tonnto]

Sometimes young men on the street beg me for money to buy something to eat. Their reason is that they have been incarcerated. I used to give some change but now I ask them this question, "Why should an old woman feed a young man who is not my child?, Go and get a job." I feel sorry for them but I think it is time someone tells them the true facts of life. I do not really blame these unfortunate black men, I blame these corrupt systems of government where there is lack of supervision and workers do not do their jobs. I am assuming that no one takes the time to inform inmates in these correctional facilities where thay may go to get free food, what companies will employ them, where they may go to get adequate housing so they can correct their behaviour. After all, these places are not only prisons, they are "Correctional Facilities". College education does not make you a better human being, it only makes you better at what you love to do. Only teach all inmates how to read and write, add and substract and count, and give them necessary resourceful information regarding where to get employment at minimum wage when they are released,how to fill out job applications,where to get housing ie. let FEMA set up a trailer park all over the country where they may live, location of Food Banks and Churches where they may go to get free food or free lunches for a time.

[toldyouso21]

OK, so maybe there's added expense to keep the lights on in the room used for classes. I'm sure that's more than offset by these inmates better behavior, which was also noted in the piece.
Posted by jelyon at 10:38 AM : Apr 16, 2007

I think it should be understood that many of the people who take these courses already had "better behavior". Many take these courses because they offer protection away from other inmates for a time. Protective custody is a death sentence if there is ever an uprising in a prison (reserved for snitches) so, one of the few legitimate and safe places for cons--is the school. You will find that many in the school program have also been victims of numerous rapes and assaults in the prison. They are better behaved? You bet they are, but that does not guarantee they will be productive citizens or will not return to jail. The fact is, a certain kind of person will use school as an outlet--and the other fact is, many more will not. Should they be educated? Why not? At tax payer expense? it is like Illegal immigration--give stuff away AFTER you take care of and provide opportunity to every law abiding citizen first. The 3 key words here are LAW ABIDING CITIZEN.

[pippermouse]

yes jelyon - YES I grasped that!! SO WHAT! Maybe I don't WANT my tax dollar going to pay the light bill!! Maybe I don't WANT my tax dollar feeding them!! NOTHING IS FREE. Like toldyouso said - there are always exceptions - some kids make it regardless of their rotten parents - BUT THEY ARE RARE!! So sorry I'm not going to be "thankful" that there is no cost to the taxpayer to pay for their education......because I don't buy it for a mintue. Tax payers pay for everything in the end. I'd like to see these "so called edcuated" criminals sent to the front lines in Iraq. I'm afraid they wouldn't be trusted to protect anybody else but themselves.