Comments on: Bush Going For Broke With Troop Surge

60 Minutes Exclusive: President Has Made Up His Mind And Takes Full Responsibility

[j-whitman]

mdc,, Maybe so,, it's still SNAFU, FUBAR it's going to take the next 15 to 30 years before Iraq has stability... Evne more generals than 2 weeks ago say "Terrorism cannot be defeated by a military force"... The devistation to the region has been overwellming damages to our National Security & military.

[mdc76082]

j-whitman, I totally respect your opinion by all means, but you have everything in that last post "backwards". Unless you intended it that way, might want to go back and fix it. (i.e., Sadaam was a Sunni and Shi'a is the majority, Sunni is the minority, Iran supports Sunni, etc.) I'll still respect you in the AM! ha!

[ourtomorrows]

That's something Bin Laden found out about after 9/11.... Not all terrorist will be from abroad or from brown skinned people with towels on thier heads.
Posted by j-whitman at 01:03 AM : Jan 16, 2007

I think we are all pretty much aware that terrorists come in all shapes, sizes, color and ethnicities. But there is a very large difference in motive and in goal between, let us say, the hijackers of 9/11 and a senior citizen baking poisoned cookies in Connecticut.

In all seriousness, I have appreciated your logical and reasoned arguments, that is rare on this site. At least we have been able to chat in a civil manner without resorting to name calling etc. That is refreshing. Thanks for sharing your personal history, I think sometimes our background s explain a good deal about who we are. My family came to what would become Massachusetts in 1635. One of my relatives was hung during the Salem Witch trials in 1692. Another was a junior white officer in one of the first African American regiments from New England fighting in the Civil War. My grandfather was a navy man in WW I, my two uncles airfoce in WW II, my father was army just after Korea.I am one of those stupid saps who believes in idealism, in ideas of democracy, that there is evil in the world but that there still are just causes, silly I know, but, we all believe waht we believe

[j-whitman]

Ourtomorrow,, It's getting late, good conversation educational arguments are brain food... I'm signing off, talk again

Keep this in mind, This now the party of Grant

[j-whitman]

It's not Viet Nam, nor is it Afaganistan, totally correct..... It is now a Shiet (pardon my spelling) with the majority Sunni, with much fighting within each against each other,,, We gave them thier constitution... They will become Sunni after we leave or a Shiet as bad as Saddam,,, Kurds only want thier independence & no part of Shiet's or Iran,,,, None want to give us any part of thier oil.... SNAFU amigo SNAFU

[ourtomorrows]

Ourtomorrow,,, No I'm not one of them, I'm an old Reagan republican of German descnt, family setteled in South Cariolina in 1765..
Some of our Generals have said thier best weapon which can't be defeated is thie ability to abandon & wait.. They have showe us that time after time.... 2,000 years of Crusades & various occupations never changed anything... End result was always withdrawal of forces.

But have we every tried to help them reach a point where they can freely govern themselves until now? No, not really. Iraq is that different approach, it is saying we won't abandon you until we have done everything we can to try and give you the tools to have a fair shot at a free, stable, elected government. I agree we can't do it alone, the Iraqi government has to start carrying some of the water. This is an entirely new approach, it is not like anything we have every attempted before. Those who argue this is like Vietnam or the Soviets in Afghanistan in my view, are missing the entire point

[j-whitman]

The President of Egypt has been ruling as a Pharoe for the last 25 years,, he has his son lined up to take his place.... Bush gave them advanced military weapons after thier own top General said, "Bomb Iraq all you want, it won't stop us from bombing Los Angeles"

[defirststate]

jackntx
I'm glad to see that I didn't imagine those numbers for the Iraqi Army and police at 323,000, trained and equipped. Since the most recent of our changing goals there, getting the army and police trained and equipped is now complete, then we're done there, right? Some of our guys go from their training straight to Iraq, so they're guys must be good to go, right? It is their country, so they should have the incentive of wanting to stop their civil war.

I believe that in this case going for broke means that if this doesn't work, clueless leader might have spent all his political capital.

[j-whitman]

Ourtomorrow,, Good, you found the cookie article,, Alltough, her reasons where differant than the threat we now face, it was an act of terrorism... Not all terrorist will share the same views & indeed most don't, most want attacks on thie own governments, not America.. That's something Bin Laden found out about after 9/11.... Not all terrorist will be from abroad or from brown skinned people with towels on thier heads.

[ourtomorrows]

Ourtomorrow,,, Now look at the example of "democracy" Bush wants to show other nations... In fact Middle East problems where having elections other than Iraq before Bush - They had democracy in it's youth as we did... Bush's actions have disrupted the entire region & with it one hellofa chunck out of our national security. -- Bush is driving countries away from democracy.

I would respectfully disagree. President Mubarak in Egypt has actually slackened his authoritarian ways since President Bush came to power, the same is true of Yemen and several other states in the region. Even Col. Quadafi in Libya has been implementing reforms, cutting down on his cult of personality fetish and actively seeking US and European tourists. Even the ever reactionary Saudis are now under a new prince who has made, for that nation, significant changes, particulary in the rights of women. The facts, reported by a variety of sources, don't seem to support your argument on the backward slide of fledgling democracies in the region. Even Iran, though it elected a nut, still has begun to build real democracy, that fact that there is actually growing, real, vocal opposition in Iran to the Iranian President is something that would have been unheard of a decade ago.

[j-whitman]

Ourtomorrow,,, No I'm not one of them, I'm an old Reagan republican of German descnt, family setteled in South Cariolina in 1765..
Some of our Generals have said thier best weapon which can't be defeated is thie ability to abandon & wait.. They have showe us that time after time.... 2,000 years of Crusades & various occupations never changed anything... End result was always withdrawal of forces.

[ourtomorrows]

J-whitman

Is this the poisoned cookies scare you reference.

POSTED: 8:05 p.m. EST, November 17, 2006
From Kevin Bohn
CNN

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Cookies mailed to the U.S. Supreme Court last year contained enough rat poison to kill all nine justices, retired member Sandra Day O'Connor said at a conference last week.

Barbara Joan March, a 60-year-old Connecticut woman, was sentenced last month to 15 years in prison. She sent 14 threatening letters in April 2005 -- each with a baked good or piece of candy laced with rat poison -- to a variety of federal officials: the nine Supreme Court justices; FBI Director Robert Mueller; his deputy; the chief of naval operations; the Air Force chief of staff and the chief of staff of the Army.

[defirststate]

mitt-wit has appointed him/her/it self time- monitor. You have been noticed posting many times. He is going to give the list of your times to his mommie and ask why the grownups can spend so much time online? It has been reported that some of these postings of yours might be of concern to herr rove and maybe even the neuber-fuhrer will be unhappy with you. Mitt-wit is keeping a list in case the SS becomes interested in some unkind statements about der putsch and der putscher. His little list of the times of your posts remind me of an old b/w twilight zone episode where the weasely little guy is always taking notes about the neighbors' activities, licking the tip of the pencil before starting to write (freudian?).

At any rate Mitt-wit has nothing better to do than compile lists of the times you and exusmcsgt post and then tells others to get a life. He might be so angry tonight that he will over-inflate his girlfriend.

[ourtomorrows]

That is what Britain and France in many cases did saying okay, we have ruled you as a colony for years, now, year are free, happy trails and we hope you can figure out how to run a government that you have never had a chance to participate in. We are trying NOT TO DO THAT WITH IRAQ.

[ourtomorrows]

j-whitman

Yes, their region, their country. Britain and France were never particularly adept at assisting the growth of fledglingly democracies in the wake of their colonial rule. So instead of propping up yet another strongman in the region, instead of playing ball for decades with another Yassar Arafat. Instead of pretending that that Saudis are not a dictatorial regime. (Those Bush I always speaks favorably about Saudi Arabia, Bush II is not so nice.) President Bush is trying to support the esablishment of legally elected governments in Afghanistan and Iraq and help two people who have suffered under brutal dictatorshiops create political infrastructure that can bring about democracy. There are some that have said, and if you read your comments a certain way you are perhaps one of them, that the people of the middle east don't want/understand democracy. I don't believe that, I have too many friends from the region who believe in the ideals of democracy. If the new government of Iraq has a fair chance to succeed, maybe that can tell us. I can't understand the *** Durbin approach of "Okay, we got rid of Saddam now we will let you pick up the pieces and try to find a way to rule yourselves after decades of dictatorship.

[j-whitman]

Miltpan,, Yes destroyed,, Thanks to alert Port workers.... Check with your local FBI office, they will be more than happy to explain terrorist activities & threats to anyone... They might just give you a tour, show up with your Mom's permission.

[miltpan72]

I'll never buy another sprinkler again.

[miltpan72]

Now go to sleep you effing ***.

[miltpan72]

multipan,,,, WATCH THE GD NEWS,,, Yes it happened,, Congressmen & even our Supreme Court Justices have had white powder & poison cookies mailed to them.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070108/ap_on_re_us/miami_bomb_threat

MIAMI - The Port of Miami was hit by its second terrorism scare in two days Monday when a package that was to be loaded onto a cruise ship tested positive for plastic explosives. Authorities later determined it was just a box of sprinkler parts. The package was initially tested six times, and each time it came back positive for the military-grade explosive known as C4, the Coast Guard said.

The package was destroyed, and a Miami-Dade County police bomb squad determined the sprinkler parts contained a substance that "closely resembles" plastic explosives, said police spokesman Bobby Williams. Williams said the instruments used to test the package sometimes give false positives.

[j-whitman]

Miltpan,,, Go spank your monkey,, don't let your mom catch you this time.