Comments on: NYC charter school's $125,000 experiment
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- i would not work 80-90 hours a week. NO amount of money is worth personal sacrifice of spending very valuable time with your family. money comes and goes, so do jobs. family doesn't. invest in family first, everything else second. they are the only ones who will support you when life throws a curveball at you, not your coworkers, your boss, or someone you taught.
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- How unfortunate that 60 Minutes and Katie Couric chose to present the story of the Equity Project in such a one-sided manner. Surely no one seriously believes the simplistic premise that a large salary will draw excellent teachers, who in turn will guarantee the success of this inner-city school. Little or no mention was made of the many other variables that must be present in order for a child to succeed in school. Family life and parental involvement were completely ignored in this piece. As a former teacher and family member of one of the teachers who was "let go," I am disappointed that Zeke Vanderhoek's flimsy notion was offered up as a "fix" for what ails public schools these days. But further, I am outraged that CBS jumped on his bandwagon and presented only one side of the story. Even though the students as a whole did not reach expectations on standardized tests, one child who did advance in his reading skills was touted as an example. No mention was made of the extra administrative duties each teacher was required to take on, adding more hours to the already-long school day. Instead, you chose to imply that the teachers who were fired were not "good enough." In the end, Mr. Vanderhoek will be left with teachers who stay on either because they need the money or because they have few other distractions in their lives. The Equity Project, tho probably conceived with admirable intentions, is a guaranteed recipe for teacher burn-out, and certainly not the answer to the problems facing our public schools. I'd give Zeke a "D" for his efforts, but no matter--he'll have four more years to get it right.
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- I watched the segment on TEP, a charter school that pays teachers well while offering no job security. The principal let two teachers go at the end of the first year. The results, according to standardized tests, were disappointing. There were a number of things that disturbed me about this segment. While I was impressed with the positive energy displayed by the principal, teachers, and students, I have reservations about the seemingly unchallenged supposition that teacher tenure rules keep incompetent teachers in public schools. This idea is getting a lot of media play right now and I think it needs to be challenged.
The young principal was doing some things right. Hiring teachers who believe that all children can and should learn, and having the teachers meet regularly to critique their practices with the idea of constantly improving upon what they are doing makes sense. It fits with what I've read about the measures taken by Finland to turn its education system around, and it's what competent managers do in every workplace. Competent managers hire good people and work with them to make them better. While they rarely fire people, they also don't keep people in positions for which they are clearly unsuited.
This is my thirty-first year of teaching. I've taught in four public school systems and one private school. The two schools in which I taught that had the worst student achievement records fired teachers on a regular basis, and one of them was a public school with an active union. Firing teachers every year did not improve student performance. It set students against teachers, teachers against administrators, and parents against the whole organization.
Are there teachers that should be let go? Absolutely. Is it necessary to take them to the school board and make a public spectacle of their failure? Almost never. Teachers, like most people, want to be successful at what they do. Sure, they want job security and a living wage, but they also want to be a positive force in the lives the children they teach. A good administrator works effectively with his/her teachers and guides them out of the profession when that is clearly in the best interest of the students. This is usually done by either moving the employee to a more suitable non-teaching position within the district or asking the employee to resign. It rarely becomes a matter of public record.
What about those administrators who tell you it's the union's fault that they don't get rid of incompetent teachers? I'm not buying it. I am a teacher who works in a public school system. We have a strong union. Administrators in my school system fire teachers. They don't do it often and they don't take pleasure in it, but they do it when it's necessary. The fact is: firing people is miserable work. Nobody with a conscience relishes depriving a person of his ability to support himself or his children.
Teacher tenure laws are not the reason we have mediocre and poor teachers in public schools. There are many factors that contribute to this problem, some of which include the high staff to supervisor ratio that exists in many school buildings (113:1 at my current building), the tendency for colleges to steer their least capable and least motivated students into elementary education, the failure of undergraduate and graduate programs in education to provide valid, rigorous teacher training-especially in the areas of reading, math, and science, and the (related) practice of tying certifications and teacher compensation to college classes that have not been shown to have a positive effect upon teacher effectiveness.
I think the young principal in your segment is off to a good start, but I don't think that his facility in firing people will be the deciding factor when it comes to turning his school around. Hiring teachers who believe that every student can and will learn and having them work together to make sure that every child does learn is going to be the greater factor in this equation. He has done that. Keeping those teachers long enough to make a difference and providing them with the best educational resources available will be his next challenge. - Reply to this comment
- I think that unions are becoming a threat to the education of the youth. I think having non tenure teachers is a good thing for the people.
I had so many bad teachers throughout elementary school-high school and even university. They would often discourage me for getting extra help.
"Didn't you learn how to factor in grade 11"
"I shouldn't have to be reviewing old material with you"
"Oh I can't get fired cause I am on a tenure"
"I do not want to post the lecture notes"
"Go stand in the hall"
"what are you doing, playing with your pencil case why i am trying to teach"
-teachers for me in high school were like bullies. They would single me out in front of the class and humiliate me with their comments and remarks.
There are some really good teachers though that are up to date on teaching with tablet computers, and providing a wide scale of resources for students to learn. Those good teachers deserve to be making more then just the avg teacher. - Reply to this comment
- I applaud all the public school teachers that I know are working very hard to make a difference in the lives of our children who depend upon us for their future. The majority of teachers are dedicated and committed professionals but like in any profession there are always people who are sub standard. The controlling upper class is trying to manufacture a crisis in education so they can blame teachers and public schools. I was appalled to hear Katie Couric ask, "How can you justify paying a teacher $125,000?" That is a sad commentary on how little teachers work in valued... I would love to ask her HOW to you justify making $15 million a YEAR? Is your work that valuable? especially when you are misleading people to believe these myths?
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- I am a retired engineer with advanced degrees and 40-years experience including two-years of teaching undergraduate and graduate students. This is my sixth year working as a community volunteer (no remuneration) in a K-8 public school in a mid-western city, where I teach science, math, advanced math, and engineering.
The teachers I work with are dedicated, hard working, and skilled in their craft. I have observed that problems in urban school education are far more intractable than all the technical problems I encountered in engineering.
There is no shortage of good or "great" teachers but a shortage of motivated students who come to school regularly and stay for the whole day, who pay attention in the classroom and don't fall asleep, who are not disruptive, who submit quality assignments on time, and who work hard and demonstrate scholarship in their work
Our political leaders have failed to solve the problems of families - burdened with social, economic, physical health, emotional health, and other problems - and whose children lack good learning habits.
Promoters of charter school blame public school teachers with unions, lack of accountability, tenure, and seniority protection for failing to teach such students. However, when charter school are free to hire and fire teachers at will - teachers with no unions, no tenure, no seniority protection - and when such teachers also cannot deliver the expected performance results - we are reminded that there is no magic solution to the problem of educating inner city kids. You can pay high salaries to attract so called "great teachers" - unless you are teaching motivated students -- all your efforts will come to naught.
Charter schools are publicly funded but we are never told that charter schools don't subscribe to the goal of universal education because they keep out, or kick out, hard-to-teach students whose poor performance depresses their ratings.
We are also not told about the cases of fraud and greed in the operation of charter schools and the skimming of public funds by for-profit operators for their selfish needs. Meanwhile, efforts to transfer public funds to charter school operators by closing public schools in inner cities and replacing them with charter schools continue unabated. - Reply to this comment
- Is this a joke? The principal is white, all the teachers white and all the children minorities! Give me a break! And the principal, what experience does he have? He looks young to be in a position to decide who gets a $125,000 job? These teachers actually make less money considering the hours they work. And in Manhattan, the cost of living is so high, that salary can't buy you a place to live in Manhattan. Money does not make a good teacher like merit pay it should not be the goal. What's disturbing is the idea of a publically funded school and operates privately. Is there anything public these day anymore?
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- I'm one of two TEP founding teachers (from Year 1) who was not invited to return after a year of the most rigorous teaching and administrative work of my 35+ year career in education. I could not agree more that teachers who are seriously deficient in skills, as well as neglectful, threatening or otherwise harmful to students, should be fired. However, I think it's important to clarify that none of those factors was the reason for our departure from TEP. Rather, we were unable to meet the extremely high expectations for the founding teacher team. Heather and I completed an 8-week summer institute and full school year at TEP following a year-long rigorous application process, and our work at TEP required 80-plus hour weeks. Any start-up is challenging, and TEP was no exception.
In regards to the evaluation process that led to our departure, in an interview featured in the segment, it was suggested that in spite of less than ideal first-year results, an administrator should be given a four-year period in which to prove efficacy. I strongly believe that two teachers who both demonstrated improvement over the course of their first year at TEP deserved the same opportunity to have adequate time to prove teaching competency at the highest levels of expectation. 60 Minutes chose not to air my comments concerning my perception of inequality in regards to the evaluation process at TEP, but I do not believe that all teachers were held to the same high standards in regards to classroom management and student engagement.
All-in-all, I learned a great deal from the excellent feedback of administrator and colleagues, which was evidenced in many ways, including my reading students' improvement on ELA state test scores. It was an honor to work with TEP students and staff, and my TEP journey was every bit the adventure I anticipated -- and then some! - Reply to this comment
- As one of the first year teachers at TEP who was not invited back for the second year, I must clarify a key point. The term "fired" used by 60 minutes was misleading. Neither my colleague nor I had done anything wrong to warrant immediate dismissal. We finished the year and worked hard until the very end, which was our original agreement with our administrator. All my students were cherished, considered important human beings, and taught with comprehensive and inventive lessons created by me every day. We all worked those long hours, and I do not regret any time spent on nurturing my students' minds and providing a loving environment for them. During my interview, I had many positive things to say about my experience at TEP, which 60 Minutes chose not to include. In the end, I openly questioned whether or not I wanted to continue spending 80+ hours per week, while raising a family, as both teacher and Parent Involvement Coordinator- last year, all teachers had to perform a teaching and an administrative role at TEP. In the end, the expectations of only one person decided whether or not I should be invited back. I know my students, their parents, and my colleagues valued me. In the end, the model used at TEP just wasn't a good fit for me.
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- Parents are being required to work long hours and kids are coming home to empty houses. This country does not value the family. Other countries where students continually perform better do. We need to look at society as a whole, not just teachers. Parents are often unable to help their children with homework, especially in poor areas where the parent's themselves have limited education. Add to the conundrum students with interrupted formal education, ESL students, students with emotional and behavioral needs, students living in homeless shelters, students who are not eating, students who are responsible for family duties such as caring for younger siblings, grandparents, or cooking dinner (this happens in middle class families).
We live in an instant gratification society. Children are not taught to take time and do the work properly. They often have the attitude of "well, I did my work" not recognizing that doing a lackluster job can result in failing grades. As principals are expected to focus on scholarship reports and percentages, teachers are forced to push children through (despite all the hoopla about there no longer being social promotion, it happens more often than before) to maintain the school's good statistics. I know of incidents where administration changed failing grades to passing to ensure the school looked good.
Charter schools cannot ever be considered the norm. They are allowed to choose their students. There is a waiting list for students. If a student does not perform, that student can be replaced with another. This is not true for other schools that cannot choose the students they have and have class sizes nearing 35 students in a room of varying abilities. (Imagine playing in an orchestra with a mix of master violinists and students who have been playing for three days - that is the average classroom.)
Consider this. There is considerable hype about "quality" teachers, yet somehow veteran teachers are being vilified as being "bad", whereas new inexperienced teachers are being considered "good". Teaching is a craft, and like many crafts takes time and practice to perfect. There are some who are naturally good - but they still need guidance. There are some basketball players who will become superstars, but there are still many other players in the NBA. Michelangelo will be remembered because he was the exception, but there have been centuries of fine artists who will never reach his level of achievement.
Also, we live in a society that considers teachers nothing more than glorified babysitters. I have often heard parents complain about teacher's getting "days off" when in fact they are attending professional development seminars to become better educators. I pay my babysitter 150 dollars a week per child, and I'm getting a good deal. Imagine paying a teacher that much -- 150x25x4=15,000! Obvioulsly teacher's arent't in it for the money. Nor are they in it for "summer's off". What many people don't recognize is that teacher's salaries are negotiated based upon 12 months of work, but rather 180 days. Teacher's are in the profession because they believe in what they are doing.
Children, parents, teachers. We are dealing with human beings here. The old saying that it takes a village to raise a child is true. Unfortunately, in today's village we are more apt to finger point than address the needs of the child. Until we recognize that humans will never fit neatly onto a spreadsheet, we will never have true education reform that does what the City of New York claims to do - put children first!
(I must disclose that I am a NYC teacher in a high-poverty neighborhood, and have been for the past 7 years. I am also a parent, a taxpayer, a citizen, and I am concerned about the whole village.) - Reply to this comment
