Comments on: American Girl, Italian Nightmare

A 48 Hours Investigation Raises Questions About The Case Against A U.S. College Student On Trial For Murder In Italy

[serene2105]

unixwiz: apologies, my comment "CBS... pushing towards the idea that Knox is being framed, just for being an American" was phrased completely incorrectly - and i'd like to take it back if i can. i mixed up the 2 issues i object against (and feel quite emotional about) in meredith's case: CBS' (and numerous other media) biased reporting - and those in the U.S. general public showing unconditional support for Knox, solely based on the grounds that she is an American, regardless of evidence at hand (and then there's the minority that hates/ridicules/boycotts/accuses Italy and it's legal system merely for putting an American on trial).
just wanted to make that clear. both, in my opinion, are very negative effects that make us lose sight of what this is really about...

[unixwiz]

Serene2105 wrote: "CBS... pushing towards the idea that Knox is being framed, just for being an American".

That's not what I saw in their report. I did not at all get the impression of her being framed "just for being an American".

The impression that I did get of what they were trying to convey was that: 1) Mignini has an active fantasy life involving Satanism and his fight against it. 2) He needed to develop a working theory framed within that fantasy world because "heinous crimes arise from satanism". 3) Satanists do rituals in a group 4) He needed other members for the group besides just "Guede" to "fill in the box". 5) Knox and Sollecito were the simplest solution for finding people to fit the box, and 6) "the simplest solution is usually the right one". 7) For Guede to have acted alone was not the simplest solution because it would take more complex machinations to fit that idea into a Satanistic mould congruent with the rest of his world, and it simply wouldn't fit well.

They did not try to suggest any specific mental disorder on Mignini's part, but I nonetheless got an impression of a man with a bipolar condition, based on their depiction of him in comparison with my own observance of the behavior of, and ideas expressed by, bipolar friends and acquaintances, when in their manic phase.

- Michael

P.S. Serene2105, I wish to complement you on your apparent even keel and keeping an open mind especially in view of your personal connection. I know how difficult that can be in such a case (as my sister was the victim of a violent crime perpetrated by three men - two pleaded out, the third and youngest went to trial against legal advice, and got 25 to life - he was the one I had the strongest and most conflicting feelings about).

[serene2105]

My final comment on CBS' biased reporting and pushing towards the idea that Knox is being framed, just for being an American, is to remind everyone of the title of this article: "American Girl, Italian Nightmare"......
Would you call that objective reporting?

[serene2105]

Some of you may have read my post from a few days back, criticizing CBS for biased reporting. As I also mentioned, I tend to stay away from any reports or commentary on Meredith's murder, but at the same time, I am very concerned with the way this case is perceived in the U.S. (and worldwide) and the anger and division it is creating, so I can't help but follow people's opinions.
I'd like to thank the many posters who've offered some objective comments and have spoken regardless of their nationality, as it should be.
What I'd like to emphasize is that I'd be as happy as many of the (angry) posters to find out that Knox is innocent. The thought that Meredith was murdered by her own roommate is unbearable and, as her friend, I would much rather see it was "just" Guede. I do not want to / should not comment on how Meredith's family feels towards the accused but if you have followed the news and seen the press conference where her sister spoke, you will know that the only thing on their mind is the loss of their precious daughter.
No one in Meredith's circle, nor anyone in their right mind wants to turn this into a witch hunt, but the fact remains that there is an astonishing amount of evidence out there against Knox AND Sollecito - and that's all we have to deal with now.
Thank you for posters pointing out that Sollecito is on trial too, an Italian, so all the assumptions of Italy / a corrupted prosecutor being out there to "get" an innocent American are just unfounded and based on other frustrations to do with a perceived European hatred towards Americans. Speak up for Knox if you feel she is unfairly treated while she is on trial, not because of the mere fact that she happened to be born on American soil.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion but no one on this board is qualified to decide the guilt of the accused. All we can do is hope and pray that Meredith rests in peace.

[unixwiz]

In my earlier comment, I wrote: "Even if this pleading were successful, the Italian authorities would likely refuse the subsequent request.".

In fact, I have no solid basis for this statement. It was just a feeling, and it was wrong for me to present it that way. My apologies.

- Michael

[unixwiz]

As a preface to my comments, I just want to say that I don't intend to profess knowing her guilt or innocence, or whether there is or is not prosecutorial misconduct. I doubt that any of us is in possession of a sufficient quantity of the data to be able to do so for any purpose other than flaming.

As stated elsewhere, it is not the practice of the U.S. Embassy to interfere with the legal proceedings of a sovereign nation.

That said, I would first point out that in many jurisdictions, although rare, a judge may sometimes overturn a jury vote to convict when he finds as a matter of law that a fair, thorough, and impartial jury could not possibly produce a guilty verdict based upon the letter and spirit of the relevant legal codes and upon the evidence and testimony presented in court.

If the allegations of prosecutorial misconduct in this case have merit and/or the actual evidence simply does not support a conviction under the terms of the law, perhaps the judge in this case could make such a finding following a guilty jury verdict should the circumstances warrant it and Italian and local laws permit him to do so.

Failing that, I can picture the defense attempting to request examination of the trial testimony, procedure, and evidence by an unreproachable third party. Should said third party determine that the conclusion could not reasonably follow from the evidence under Italian law, the defense could then plead with the U.S. government to request Italian authorities to convene an oversight committee. Even if this pleading were successful, the Italian authorities would likely refuse the subsequent request.

So the short version of the story is:

A) If Ms. Knox is guilty, she will probably get what she deserves.
B) If Ms. Knox is innocent, she's probably screwed.

(Simply as a comment on human nature, there are probably people who will believe that she is guilty simply because the notion that she can be simultaneously innocent and screwed is unacceptable to them. If it could happen to Knox then it could happen to them, and it's more comfortable to believe that she is getting what she deserves).

- Michael

[cizinka31000]

dear MEWorcester98, it's not that i am "so sure" that AK is guilty, but rather that i am NOT sure she's "innocent!" I think "fairminded people" be careful with that assumption of innocence as well.

I think your comment is rather shortsighted. If we knew who brutally stabbing murderers were in advance, because of red flags (What are these red flags, ME Worcester? how do you tell murderers, when standing in line at the grocery store or the bank? do they wear red baseball caps with M for 'murderer'?), then there would be no crime. they would be intercepted.

Everyone is ALWAYS surprised by the perpetrators of crime. Do you think Meredith's parents expected her to die in this brutal way when they sent her off for a semester abroad to Italy?

No one said it was an "orgy" - The prosecutors suggest it may have been a sex game. No one said it was a satanic ritual.

The fact that "orgies don't happen often" --- is that some kind of defense argument? I don't understand. People don't get away with 50 billion dollar pyramid schemes everyday either, but SOMETIMES they do. people don't massacre 6 million people in gas chambers every single day, but SOMETIMES they do.

you, MEWorcester98, have totally inadvertantly made a very philosophical point on the banality of evil. if it doesn't HAPPEN OFTEN, and if MOST OF THE TIME, people live "normal" lives, why do people do evil things.

reading over your comment, MEWorcester98, i don't think you intended to be so profound or intelligent, but even the most banal people can SOMETIMES have accidental flashes of insight.

[MEWorcester98]

I am really confused... for all of you who seem so sure that this girl committed this horrible crime, where are you getting your information? What has led you to make such a leap? I am a psychologist, and one has to look at the statistical prevalence of certain pieces of this case... First of all, satanic rituals simply don't happen that often. Orgies simply don't happen that often. And committing murder is definitely more the exception than the rule, so how likely is it that three individuals would meet up and coincidentally have the same murderous intentions? Plus, people don't just someday start killing with no red flags in their history, especially in such a brutal and intimate (stabbing with a small knife) way.

Assuming nothing (because fair-minded people have nothing to base any assumptions on), if Amanda Knox is innocent, can you even imagine what she must be going through? I studied abroad when I was 20 and I cannot even imagine how terrifying and confusing this must feel for her. Remember how difficult it felt in high school when someone didn't like you? Imagine feeling hatred from people around the world! You would be literally universally hated for simply living in the wrong place at the wrong time, and you would be unable to escape that hatred for the rest of your life!

[Miss_Manero]

Posted by caligula1--2008 -

of course any murder in Italy that an American is found within 50 meters of COULDN'T have had anything to do with an Italian . . . .

Note to caligula1--2008 - Raffaele Sollecito who is also charged with the murder is in fact Italian. Think you should maybe do some more reseach into this case (preferably from an unbiased source) before you start spouting off.

[caligula1--2008]

" Lock her up in an Italian jail for the rest of her life. It will be good for American - European relations. "

A man with a true sense of how the European justice system works.

Unfortunately in Italy they haven't gotten THAT advanced yet, they're still at the "it MUST have been the American" stage . . . of course any murder in Italy that an American is found within 50 meters of COULDN'T have had anything to do with an Italian . . . . So, make your facts fit the theory, even if you have to bend them a bit, or simply not report some to the defense . . . Totally not uncommon in Italy.