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- Sounds like a bunch of miserable people that didn't know how to enjoy life.
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- Glad to see all these friends of Mrs Wangler flooding the boards with their alternate reality theories, they all seem to be medical or HVAC experts as well!
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- There was one amusing moment in the show, when the new wife said she could see through a criminal mind because she had degrees in psychology. Countless psychologists have testified to the sanity of insane criminals, thereby causing their release from prisons and state mental facilities, wherein they go out and kill more people. I would reckon that oversympathetic psychologists (many of whom are disturbed themselves) are more gullible than the average person.
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- This is a cast of characters "Murder She Wrote" could do no better in putting together. The doctor: Religious fanatic, controlling, crazy; the new wife -- was she on something during this filming ???; The doc's in-laws never liked him, that is for sure; the sons (equally creepy). Wow! There was enough nastiness to go around and around and around. Greed seems to be a motive; control another. Ultimately, divorce would have been a whole lot better
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- If you look up conditions that cause "lead pipe rigidity" you come across 2 conditions, Malignant Hyperthermia and Neuroleptic Malignant Syndrome. Not saying that she had NMS as I don't know what medications she was on, but there are lots of things that can cause rigidity.
Both of these conditions can cause masseter spasm to the point where it can be impossible to intubate, making one think that rigor mortis is there, especially if there is no pulse. In both cases, so much Calcium is released that it takes a very long time for muscle relaxation.
http://www.nursing.arizona.edu/Library/HAMMERGREN_D.PDF
Neuroleptic Malignant Syndrome gives rise to numerous complications. Prolonged muscle rigidity results in rhabdomyolysis, myonecrosis, myoglobinuria and possibly renal failure. Hyperthermia from skeletal muscle contractions and hypothalamic dysregulation may induce seizures. Additional complications include: myocardial infarction, aspiration pneumonia, pulmonary edema, arrhythmias, cardiac arrest, disseminated intravascular coagulation, and death - Reply to this comment
- http://www.somerset.k12.md.us/JMT/postmortem_changes.htm
While carbon monoxide does not speed up the onset of rigor mortis, it does delay the onset of resolution of rigor mortis.
In this article, 4 things can speed up the onset of rigor mortis....3 of which were present or allegedly present in this case.
1) Exogenous Heat (the house was hot, being summer)
2) Seizure activity (she allegedly was seizing)
3) Violent exertion at time of death (seizures are violent)
4) Alkaloid poisoning (no evidence of this)
Muscle stiffening occuring at the time of death. No absolute data is available but release of calcium with muscle contractions, ie seizures at the time of death, can cause myosin-actin contractions to the point of spasticity resembling rigor mortis. The calcium release has occurred earlier so to speak.
So no! You can't hang your hat on rigor mortis, in the case of seizure occuring at time of death. - Reply to this comment
- Thank you. Also, what wasn't brought out in the 48 Hours piece is that Dr. Wangler was also suffering from carbon monoxide poisoning, and cannot be held accountable to act like a skilled doctor while his brain was deprived of oxygen, nor that Mrs. Wangler weighed twice as much as Dr. Wangler, which would have made it impossible for him to move her by himself. The EMTs failed to identify him as a patient, failed to transport him to the hospital, and once at the hospital, the emergency room staff failed to recognize the situation and left him in the waiting room. Eventually, they put 2 and 2 together and administered oxygen in an exam room... and yet some time after that, finally measured his CO level. So, there is no way of knowing what his level was at the scene. What we do know is that CO affects people differently, and that it is not uncommon for one victim to die while another survives.
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- ChicagoBadBoy said:
"You don't automatically check a pulse while someone is having a seizure."
Absolutely true. With tonic/clonic shaking, you're not likely to even be able to discern a pulse anyway.
"Also how many times have you seen a doctor, especially a good anesthesiologist, perform CPR, doctors don't do the CPR."
True again. Although I have a hard time believing he would have - in good faith - not moved her off the mattress. He would have had to drag her dead wait. By lifting one side, she might have rolled onto the floor on her own.
"The 911 operator mentions to not do that (open windows), because it would be hard for someone to measure the CO level."
Right again. Opening windows would be the EXACT thing you should do, in an emergency.
"So don't judge a doctor by his CPR skills."
Great point. If we Medics graded MDs on their poor resuscitation skills we see on EMS scenes, we'd fail pretty much all of them.
So, did this MD act appropriately upon finding his wife? Of course not. Does that mean he killed her? Of course not. Medical professionals can be just as incompetent - under personal stress - as anybody else.
All of these aspects of the case - and many more - are debatable.
But when you distill the case to irreducible minimums, we are left with this:
1. Wangler reported his wife having a seizure, which is by definition a sign of life.
2. Those who were most experienced with determining "signs of life" & "signs of death" - that is, the medics, and the forensic pathologist - witnessed "rigor" and "lividity" which are completely incompatible with a recently, witnessed seizure.
3. Wangler had documented that he wanted her dead, and praised God when she she died, even going so far as writing something like, "God works in amazing ways."
So it all gets down to whom do you believe.
People are flawed.
Rigor mortis is ugly, and very, very unvarnished. - Reply to this comment
- IN the 911 call, the doctor does not state that his wife is unresponsive
He states that his wife is having a seizure and that the carbon monoxide
detector has gone off. You don't automatically check a pulse while someone is having a seizure. He mentions opening the windows, and the 911 operator mentions to not do that, because it would be hard for someone to measure the CO level. While he's thinking just how stupid that sounds and goes about opening the windows, she then continues her routine and asks him to check for pulse and breathing. This gets him to check his wife, as he is busy opening windows, at which point in time, he realizes his wife has no pulse. CPR is then initiated. The stupid EMT juror that decides 'guilty because the doctor was doing CPR wrong',(wrong counting of compressions, and doing it on a inflatable mattress) should think a little bit about trying to move someone dead weight by oneself while doing compressions. Also how many times have you seen a doctor, especially an good anesthesiologist perform CPR, doctors don't do the CPR.....they are the ones that do the thinking regarding what is going on and making the right decisions that ultimately save the patient
So don't judge a doctor by his CPR skills. Even Dr. Conrad Murray, a cardiologist sucked when it came to CPR. Doctors are great when they have a team, or all the equipment around. Get one without any stuff around, or nurses or other ancillary help, they suck, and probably a paramedic is a better bet for giving CPR. But that doesn't mean he killed his wife, as this EMT juror claims. - Reply to this comment
- I just saw this on ID tonite. It was excellently done. The whole case is really disturbing. I felt the whole thing was nothing but rumors, insinuations, and very little fact.
So much was made of the journals. A journal is usually a private thing, made up of our most private, intimate thoughts. There was obviously strain the the Wanglers' marriage. That does NOT equate with murder! If every spouse had to answer for every thought that passes through their mind, many times following disagreements, there would be a lot of scrutiny focused on that spouse if, God forbid, something happened to the complained about partner.
The idea of journaling is to vent, get your feelings out, learn and grow from there. It's generally not a blueprint for murder.
This whole case is weak, in my opinion. I sympathize with her mom and sisters and especially her sons. I have to say though, I found Kathy's mom to be very irritating. She commented several times about Mark's obsession with money, however, SHE came across as very money obsessed.
She also appeared to be domineering and controlling, and seemed rather oblivious to her grandsons' suffering. - Reply to this comment
