Comments on: Did Ohio anesthesiologist gas his wife to death?
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PatricParamedic Says:
January 22, 2013 at 5:38 pm
Michael - Those of us who deal with thousands of death scenes have no functional need for Google, or any other generalist reference tool. That would be like suggesting an architect use a Cub Scout manual to build a tree-house.
We use death scenes & homicides & what we already know about human behavioral tendencies, to guide us toward logical conclusions. When you manage thousands of cases, you reach the point where you can see "patterns" with phenomenal accuracy.
The investigators in this case performed no "rush to judgement" based on any single factor, such as "rigor."
Rather, they spent years - think about that, YEARS - assessing dozens of aspects of this case.
Wangler, MD does not sit in jail today because somebody forgot to check a few basic - and valid - possibilities.
He sits in jail because the totality of his actions point to guilt.
It is simply not logical to believe his version of events. In order to do so, you have to suspend reason and buy into a veritable litany of coincidences.
Now, any goofy coincidence can pop up at anytime in life.
But when you need a string of oddities to happen at just the right time, in order to prove your innocence, you're stacking a house of bricks on some very soft sand.
Wangler MD convicted himself. He did it by his behavior before & after the death of his wife; he did it by things that he said & didn't say.
And his personal journal could have convicted him all by itself.
Thank you for your interest in this case
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Michael Says:
January 23, 2013 at 5:51 am
With power, one can become condescending, and perhaps blind to the truth. No one will judge you, until after death, and then you will have to deal with that day of reckoning.
I'm assuming that you were informed by medical personel that something was wrong, ie rigor mortis and hypothermia, and then made a conclusion that there was no way that Dr. Wrangler's version of events were true. I mean how could she have just died, if rigor mortis and hypothermia an lividity had set in? He had to be lying, right?
You then had to come up with a logical sequence of events of what truly happened, and then set up to prove those events.
What if the medical personel never informed you that something was amiss, what then? What if what the medical personel told you that what they told you was not true, what then? Now your house of bricks just got built on soft sand, did it not?
In this case, you concluded that he took a hose, hooked it up to the duct work in the home, and set a fan in his bedroom to push air out, and did all this knowing he had a full day of work the next day. He waited until after death, about 2 hours, then called 911, performed cpr on someone with rigor mortis, and then had her having a seizure before death.
By your logic, Dr. Wrangler being a physician-anesthesiologist, would have known about "immediate rigor mortis post seizure, and also vasodilatory hypothermia caused by CO poisoning, so he must have lied and orchestrated a setting that would explain these events, not counting on all the medical personel missing this physiological process, and arriving at the conclusion that he just waited 2 hours before starting cpr on a dead body.
I'm left wondering if he was in the house, pumping all this gas into the home, why he didn't do the most logical thing as an ahesthesiologist just give himself oxygen, instead of exposing himself to all that carbon monoxide.
This case is fraught with ilogical events, more than enough to lend reasonable doubt. You have a doctor who is an expert, performing cpr on a dead body '2 hours after death', and an anesthesiologist, an expert on causing death, hooking up a garden hose, to the duct work in a home, pumping in carbon monoxide at great risk to himself, and then this journal where he's venting and arrive at a conclusion of murder.
You then have a jury that had a EMT conclude he's guilty because he did cpr on an air mattress, and his cpr count was off, ie he was using the old count, and another juror that supposedly was a HVAC expert, who turns out to be a former drug addict.
Yep, sounds like a string of oddities and goofy concidences, except I 'm left wondering if what really happened is that Kathy really did have a seizure, and CO poisoning did occur, and this whole investigation was because someone made a wrong conclusion that Kathy was dead for 2 hours. when actually it might have been 15 minutes. - Reply to this comment
- PatricParamedic Says:
January 8, 2013 at 7:46 am
Michael said:
"Actually, not many coroners, or even er docs are that up to date on CO poisoning deaths, just how to treat, and even less know about calcium release and reuptake failure in seizure deaths. A good pathologist like Dr. G might know.
Most coroners are just family docs that got elected to the office, and not pathologists."
I agree 100%. But Diane Scala-Barnett is neither an amateur nor an elected coroner. She is instead a forensic pathologist who appears more than capable to assemble facts and come to logical conclusions. Kathy Wangler's lividity for one, She is recognized as a professional in her field and has contributed to some pretty impressive textbooks.
I think anyone who studies this case ought to be able to see that there was no rush to judgment whatsoever. In fact, the investigation took considerably longer than most cases, because building a Murder case against a reputable MD with no known history of crime, takes time. They interviewed plenty of outside experts and built a logical case.
As an MD with plenty of time to think, I'd suspect your argument might have been considered by Wangler himself on appeal.
I personally suspect all the evidence a logical trier of fact might need, can be seen clearly in Wangler's private diary.
I believe his diary says it all.
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Michael Says:
January 10, 2013 at 8:54 am
Not to take anything away from Dr. Diana Scala-Barnett, but she really didn't establish or address the failure of calcium reuptake in seizures, and how it can simulate rigor mortis, or vasodilatory shock causing hypothermia in carbon monoxide poisoning, nor did anyone ask her if vasodilation could cloud the story.
While I'm sure she's more than capable, she is not a Dr. G. I believe Dr. Diana Scala-Barnett got her MD at Universidad Autonoma De Guadalajara, outside the US, and trained in pathology at UTMC, neither program is that strong, while Dr. G trained at the St Louis University School of Medicine, one of the best in the country.
As I said, it's not that well known, and it would seem that a lot of people including the medical people involved have just assumed that Kathy was dead a long time, based on the hypothermia and rigor mortis, and it seems Dr. Barnett just went along. I would venture to guess that the ED team also made that conclusion, based on a very short resusitation attempt.
In any case, we've all had time to think thru this case, and they'll come a day of judgment, after death, when you will find out if you caused tremendous misery on an innocent human being. I would think the One that judges you that day will forgive you for an honest mistake, - Reply to this comment
- MEDICAL MISCREANTS
http://medicalmiscreants.com/2012/12/06/ohio-doctor-loses-appeal-in-wifes-poison-gas-murder-case/
In Lima, Ohio a physician in prison for killing his wife in 2006, has been turned down for a new trial.
Dr Mark Wangler
The Ohio Third District Court of Appeals dismissed the argument by Doctor Mark Wangler's attorneys, challenging his murder conviction. Judge Richard Warren denied the motion for a new trial, the basis of which was juror misconduct.
Wangler's defense team argued that one of the 12 jurors had intentionally lied on the jury questionnaire about his own criminal history. In his ruling, the judge stated the juror's background did not change the facts of the case.
Wangler, age 57, was sentenced to 25 years to life in prison, four and one-half years after the death of his wife Kathy. By that time, he had already remarried.
The former anesthesiologist was convicted in part, according to several jurors, because they could not believe his story of finding her having a "seizure." The Paramedics who initially arrived on scene recognized that she had been dead for quite some time before they arrived, and that Doctor Wangler was certainly lying when he reported to the 911 operator that she was having a seizure when he found her. Both the emergency room doctor who examined her, and the coroner who performed the autopsy, also testified that the woman probably had been dead for an hour or longer, before the doctor called 911.
Kathy Wangler (center) in happier times
The coroner's report states that Kathy Wrangler died of carbon monoxide poisoning as she lay in her upstairs bedroom. The prosecution was able to convince the jury that Wangler had rigged a hose from a running car exhaust into the house on the night of his wife's death.
10 Responses to "Ohio Doctor Loses Appeal in Wife's Poison Gas Murder Case"
Jon Miller Says:
December 6, 2012 at 12:30 pm
pretty good insights. I'll be sure to stop by and read more from you. thanks.
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Michael Says:
January 5, 2013 at 9:16 am
What wasn't considered is when someone has a seizure and then undergoes a cardiac arrest, they are stiff because they are unable to re-uptake the calcium released, which requires energy or ATP, which would be unavailable, as there would be no blood flow, or ability to make ATP, since CO has displaced oxygen from the red cells. This would simulate rigor mortis, which normally occurs from calcium release that occurs upon death. This
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Michael Says:
January 5, 2013 at 9:29 am
This inability to re-uptake calcium released from a seizure is what led to the false conclusion that Kathy had been dead for at least an hour, as claimed by the
ED doctor and EMS. An anesthesiologist is highly trained on rendering someone dead, and it's unlikely that he or she would utilize a hose, to introduce gas fumes into a home, making it impossible to be in the home, and then after death, with rigor mortis now set in, think of performing cpr, and make up a story about carbon monoxide poisoning.
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patricparamedic Says:
January 6, 2013 at 8:31 am
Michael -
Appreciate your observations as well as your responses.
My thoughts to what you have to say are these:
1. An inexperienced medic could certainly mistake the body stiffness that was apparently witnessed on scene. But I'd say it's a serious stretch in plausibility to believe both an ER doc and a pathologist would make the same mistake.
2. I've assessed countless hundreds of death scenes, and I can promise you that rigor mortis evolves in fairly consistent patterns, beginning with nuchal rigidity and TM joint, and working its way south over time. The body stiffening subsequent to a grand mal seizure - as was described by Wangler, MD -you are follows no such pattern.
3. Stiffening post GM seizure would have no bearing whatsoever on body temperature, and the deceased woman was cold upon arriveal at the ER.
4. Your belief that a highly-trained specialist wouldn't resort to crude and even amatuerish tools to kill, is naive. I study physician misbehavior for a living, and doctors are as capable as anyone of being downright ignorant when it comes to murder, unless they are serial killers.
In the end, I find those who believe in Wangler's innocence are under much the same delusions as the O.J. Simpson supporters.
In order to believe they are innocent, you have to subscribe to a jaw-dropping amount of coincidence.
And when it comes to homicide, true coincidences are very, very, rare. - Reply to this comment
- I just want to comment on how stupid this sounds. After hooking up a garden hose to the duct system of the house, and filling the entire house with smoke from a car, which would make it almost intolerable to deal with the fumes, going into his bedroom and setting up a fan, so that he wouldn't get too asphyxiated, then waiting several hours until rigor mortis sets in, he then calls 911, and decides to tell them that she is having a seizure, when he knows she has rigor mortis, and then performs cpr on a stiff body. A lay person might be stupid enough to do all this, but it's bit of a stretch to put a doctor into saying someone stiff enough to have rigor mortis is having a seizure. What most doctors would do is call 911, and say, my wife's dead, and the carbon monoxide detector has gone off.
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- I'm not an expert with carbon monoxide or water heaters like so many at the trial claim to be. I like to follow cases and one thing i know is there was not enough evidence to convict him. There was more evidence to convict in the casey Anthony but you see what happened! Bottom line is that you (the one on trial) is left in the hands of a group of people (jury) that are human and allow personal judgement to cloud them even though they are not suppose to! So all you can do is pray the jury the jury you have likes you!! the second thing is don't ever write down your personal feelings in a diary!! I wouldn't have convicted him!
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- DID ANYBODY REMEMBER THAT HIS JOURNAL INCLUDED AN ENTRY WHERE HE WAS CONVINCED THAT SATAN WAS WORKING THROUGH HIM WITH BY MEANS OF "CAR EXHAUST!" AH, YEAH, I THINK THIS PRETTY MUCH SUMS IT UP.
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- Kind of like the 48 Hours SCUBA wife accident/murder -- no one except hubby knows for sure? Again, not enough evidence to convict "beyond a reasonable doubt" IMO
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- Something I haven't seen addressed here or on the show was the CM alarm. Pray tell what is the point of an alarm if you die anyway? and it was mentioned that but for having his window open, he might have died also. So then I really have to ask, WHAT IS THE POINT OF THE ALARM?????
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- My heart really goes out to the doctor and his boys. Anyone who hasn't lived with a person with BPD can never understand what it's like to live in frustrated turmoil, wondering what you did to make that person that way, wondering if there is a way to make things normal again, not realizing that that person was NEVER normal and never can be.
They are notorious liars. My sister is BPD and I can't be sure she EVER told me the truth. She makes up stories about being raped at the mall, in love with people she doesn't even really know, etc. She's racked up hundreds of thousands of dollars in credit card debt (some of it in my name) and in one year had $10,000 in overdraft fees. I personally paid off one of her credit cards because she told me her husband was going to leave her if he found out, and she not only never paid me back, she never even thanked me, and turned around and did it again. She manipulated us by telling us her husband wouldn't give her money for school clothes for the kids. My dad gave her tens of thousands over a few years, and I also gave her thousands for clothes, only to find out that her husband had indeed given her money for clothes and that she had squandered all the money we had given her on cheap jewelry and the expenses of having affairs with other men.
My heart goes out to her husband and children. - Reply to this comment
- Kathy sounds like a textbook example of borderline personality disorder. People with BPD can be very difficult to live with, and they often lose their families because of their selfishness and acting out. They often make weak suicide attempts for attention and all too often, they accidentally succeed, although their purpose was to create dramatic attention rather than actually kill themselves. I feel bad for Mark, Aaron and the rest of her family. They must have live painful lives and now have to deal with this painful death.
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