Scroll Left Scroll Right

60 Minutes Overtime MJ's "manifesto," penned in 1979 1 of 9
Feature Backstage at Cirque du Soleil show "Immortal" 2 of 9
60 Minutes Overtime Angelina Jolie: I would love to live a long life 3 of 9
60 Minutes Overtime Bill Gates on Steve Jobs: We grew up together 4 of 9
60 Minutes Overtime How Bill Gates' school launched his life's work 5 of 9
Feature Jessica Buchanan's long journey home 6 of 9
60 Minutes Overtime Bill Clinton tried to get Led Zeppelin back together 7 of 9
60 Minutes Overtime From soldier to mad scientist: Kit Parker's lab 8 of 9
Gallery Soldiers' Art: What traumatic brain injury feels like 9 of 9

September 2, 2012 8:13 AM

Print
Text

Kindergarten "redshirting." What would you do?

By: 60 Minutes Overtime Staff
Topics: Overtime Original

Here at Overtime, we thought "redshirting" was something that only happened to college athletes. Then we saw Morley Safer's report on kindergarten redshirting, the controversial practice of holding your kid back from kindergarten to give him an edge the following year.

After overhearing some lively debate about redshirting by our colleagues in the hallways of 60 Minutes, we decided to sit down with the redshirting producing team to hear what they thought of this red-hot educational issue.

Morley Safer went to kindergarten back in the 1930s and is now a grandfather. Producer Deirdre Naphin is married with three children. And associate producer Nichole Marks is single and in her 20s. Three journalists, three stages of life -- and three different perspectives on redshirting.

For Deirdre the debate was a very real one: her youngest son was supposed to enter kindergarten this fall, and she wasn't sure he would be ready. Eventually she and her husband made the decision to start their son in school this fall, on schedule. Listen to Deirdre's dilemma and tell us what you think. Did she make the right call?

325 Comments +

Add a Comment

See all 325 Comments


by SportsKidDad November 16, 2012 5:19 PM EST: Dads are taking advantage of this "loophole" so that their "boy" can make that "monster tackle" in football, or throw 10 mph faster than the other baseball kids...while they pound their chests like gorillas in the stands.

Moms are doing it so their kid can go up to the podium to receive their annual "do gooder" award, while they can run up to front of the audience and take their favorite "my kids better than yours" facebook picture.

And let me tell you something... every parent that didn't "Redshirt" their "underdeveloped" kid for "this or that" b.s. reason, despises you everytime you do it.

90 percent of parents that do this are doing it to have an advantage over other kids. And they could care less about the other kids they are effecting. They are the same ones that call the teacher all the time and pressure them to change a "B" to an "A" so they can get into Harvard.

And what is interesting is that when you point out the truth in someone doing this, they get really mad. It's like telling a kid you know he did it, and he has no other response but to get mad about it.

"Oh, you don't know my kid"... blah, blah, blah. You're right, I don't know your kid, but I know you. And what is sad is that your reproducing like rabbits, without any regard for the other kids.

Quit lieing to yourself and the intelligent people here that know that is what you did.; Reply to this comment


by northman26 September 5, 2012 1:40 PM EDT: I find it funny that parents think that holding kids back will give them an advantage. Kids are smarter than you think and know which kids don't belong - every child in my class that was born before the age cutoff had a stigma of being "slow" all the way through school and never escaped it. As for sports, all competitive sports should be cutoff by age only and not have any consideration for grade (i.e. - older kids should have to play on after-school sports teams with kids that are in higher grades and the same age as them).; Reply to this comment

by mkg27376 August 16, 2012 11:58 PM EDT

I wish 60 Minutes had aired the Overtime discussion during your on-air broadcast and given more in-depth coverage on both sides of this issue. The broadcast, as aired, came across as being very one-sided, presenting parents who hold their young 5-year-olds out for another year as types who are out to dominate society and give their kid the utmost advantage. As a parent with a child approaching kindergarten but only making our state cutoff by 2 weeks, I agree completely with Deidre Naphin's opinion on this issue. I am not looking at this decision as a way to insure that my child is better equipped than the rest, but rather, as a way to insure that I am not starting him off in life at a disadvantage - one that may only compound throughout his school years. In an ideal world, we'd be able to enter all children at 5 and a half, but school only starts in September, so the only option for some parents is to have your child enter at just 5 (youngest) or just 6 (oldest). I, too, have read numerous opinions, reports, and anecdotes on this issue, and find it interesting that there is considerable evidence and advice out there that supports waiting. It would have been considerably helpful for those of us in this predicament if 60 Minutes had given the other side of the debate adequate coverage. Why not ask the opinion of educators and child development specialists and give more coverage to some of the studies put out by educational and government bodies? And was the fact that most Kindergartens are now covering the First Grade curricula of earlier generations (i.e., expecting ever more from young children) ever addressed? Furthermore, I applaud the coverage regarding how redshirting puts disadvantaged children at even more disadvantage. This is a serious, ethical dilemma that our society should address. However, the answer to this part of the problem is much broader than simply setting limits on parents and school start dates, and I feel that your coverage wrongly placed blame on parents. As a society, wouldn't it be best for us to support universal preschool or pre-K for all disadvantaged children (or all children, for that matter), or to better address other factors that put such children at a disadvantage well before kindergarten entry? And, while we must weigh our own well-being alongside the well-being of greater society, isn't it still a parent's job to do what is best for their own child, and still every society-member's job to ensure that we are reaching our full potential? I also find Morley Safer's comments on helicopter parents during "Overtime" a topic that could be further developed. Yes, it would be great to allow our kids to "just be kids", but are we, as a society, adequately understanding why helicoptering is occurring? For those of us in this generation of parents, it seems to be much more a reaction to society's changing structure, and the expectations and preparations needed to deal with such a changing world, than it is that we are self-imposing our own helicoptering. Now that could be a 60 Minutes topic.

Reply to this comment


by EqualThePlayingField September 4, 2012 10:35 AM EDT: It seems like the system has the parent as essentially the sole decision maker. As parents are strongly motivated to do what's right for their child even at the expense of the system, I thought the point of the story is that we missing something in place that looks out for system.

by cindymario July 19, 2012 8:29 PM EDT

Oh my goodness, there is SO much more to this topic! I moved to Texas in 2007, with a 1st grader and a preschooler. My oldest son was born May 14, 2000. He went into kindergarten in Boston at the age of 5 years, and I never noticed much difference in him from the other kids. When we moved to Texas, I became very aware of "redshirting." Alex, my son, was one of the youngest kids in his class (with a mid May birthday). Then, when he played flag football, which was age based, pretty much everyone on his team was in the grade below him, some of them were a month or two OLDER than he. In Texas, it does not happen with only the summer birthdays, it happens with kids born in April, May and June too! It is all for sports, football mostly. But the schools encourage it, because guess what, with older kids, you get better test scores! Teachers are now evaluated on standardized testing, so having older kids benefits the school system. In our town, we have a much larger percentage of "Gifted and Talented" children, but is is all because this city is affluent enough to hold kids back. My son is now going into 7th grade, he plays sports, and the difference in size is unbelievable. He is extremely smart, so academics have never been an issue, but the size in sports, regardless of his skill set, is scary. When parents hold their kids back, they may be doing it to give their kid an edge, but as they get older, especially in the middle school years when kids enter puberty at different times, they put my child, who is not held back, in danger. With concussions, hits, competitiveness etc, I feel like I may have to have my kid take a few years off from lacrosse because of how physical the game is. He has kids, in his grade, and on his team that are 1.5 years older than he! In Texas, this has gotten out of control. I wish you had me for this segment! I know of a family in my town, with 3 boys, all of which were held back twice!!!!!

Reply to this comment


by EqualThePlayingField July 20, 2012 12:06 PM EDT: Although he is performing well academically, it does not seem like he is on an level playing field. For example, if your son was pursuing an academic opportunity and it was between him and someone in his grade, but the other person was a year older, shouldn't that be considered? Your son accomplished the same things in less time and a younger age than the other individual and that makes his accomplishments more impressive.


by EqualThePlayingField July 17, 2012 9:40 AM EDT: Can't we all agree that an age cut-off is appropriate for competitive sports (not in-town leagues, but rather travel teams and varsity teams)?

Can't we also agree that it is more impressive for a younger kid to perform academically than an older kid (e.g., to see this, just take it to an extreme where if a kid takes each course twice...should he get a full ride to Harvard?)

Oliver Wendell Holmes presented us with a societal obligation to make rules to stop the "bad man" by taking away his motivations to
game the system.

In short: We should be enforcing age limits on sports and we should use age as a consideration for college.; Reply to this comment

by erakc July 14, 2012 2:54 PM EDT

Kindergarten is not like it used to be. With all of the high-stakes testing that our politicians insist on us using, the pressure is on to teach kids more at an earlier age just to succeed in school. When I went to Kindergarten, it was about learning to get along with others. Formal reading and mathematics instruction did not begin until grade 1. Now Kindergartners are expected to read, add and subtract, etc. The pressure is on teachers and kids. As a former kindergarten (now pre-k) teacher, I believe it is almost "always" best to wait to start school until your child is ready to listen and absorb all that he/she must learn. Let them be kids and have fun as long as possible.

Reply to this comment


by looly924 July 17, 2012 3:47 PM EDT: As a fellow Kindergarten teacher, I completely agree with you. I have never had a parent regret holding their child back but I have seen children with "summer birthdays" struggle for years, some not able to catch up.

by whozzzzure July 14, 2012 8:42 AM EDT

Another glaring example in how screwed up our educational system is.

Reply to this comment


by doeseaspirit September 9, 2012 12:24 PM EDT: I know things are different today but I never went to kindergarten, or preschool. I was a shy, introverted kid. At 3 years old i was taught to read, the man who taught me died, I entered 1st grade at 5 years old, parachoil school. School turned out to be a blessing for me. I learned I was a good student, and it was a atmosphere i enjoyed. Socially, I was always shy, and afraid to compete on the playground, but that did not change until i STARTED ANTIDEPRESSANTS AT 30 YEARSS OLD.

by Sherigc July 10, 2012 12:32 PM EDT

I believe each child is different. My son has an August 22nd birthday and he was NOT ready (maturity-wise) to start kindergarten at age 5. He was completely ready about 6 months later, but they won't let you start school in the middle of the year - so we waited and started him the next fall. He is now going into high school and doing well in school. He is rather a late bloomer (although, he will be a a big kid - his dad is 6'4"), so even though he is almost a year older than some of his classmates, you would never know it (most of them are bigger than he is). As far as having a leg up in sports - it doesn't work that way. He has always played soccer and the cutoff date for that is August 1. So, whether we started him in school at age 5 or not - be would have played with kids a year younger. I never felt he had an advantage of any kind by being older. I would have felt bad starting him at 5 - he simply was not ready to start kindergarten (he certainly was smart enough, but socially he would have struggled). I know lots of kids who did start and they are doing fine. It really should be a child by child thing. I do not believe you should hold them back, just to give them an 'edge' of some sort. If they are ready, start them - if they are not, don't. It should be as simple as that.

Reply to this comment


by ccr440 September 6, 2012 3:37 PM EDT: I saw this video at a later date (it's now Sept. 6) and I wish I had seen it when it first aired but anyhow, I agree with you 100%. I think most people that hold their kids back a grade (kids who have late birthdates) do so in order to make sure their kids aren't at a disadvantage rather than to put them ahead of the game, so to speak. This video seemed rather one sided to me. There are more reasons than what they covered to consider in the decision making process on when to start a child who barely makes the age cut of 5. All kids are different and birth month is a big factor to consider.

Our sons sound very similar. Mine is small for his age too and he was just not ready for Kindergarten when he was 5. I didn't do it to give him an edge over others but to make sure he wasn't struggling and at a disadvantage his whole school career. When he was 5 he just was NOT ready to start Kindergarten despite my best attempt to start him anyways even after the Kindergarten teachers said to wait another year! And despite being a year older than some of the kids in his grade he too has always been one of the smallest in his grade.

Like I said he's the youngest of 4 and none of my children have failed or been held back a grade due to academics and none of them ever had a hard time in school, which I consider a blessing. But my youngest was (the only one) born in the summer. He had many allergy issues and still does (way beyond just the ragweed season), had frequent ear infections and sinus issues too. He had tubes put in his ears twice and his tonsils/adenoids out by the time he was 4. So he missed alot of pre-school due to his health issues and was not ready to start Kindergarten at the age of 5. The teachers who saw us for the Kindergarten screening/sign up advised me to wait and feeling like I failed him or something, I mean my older 3 all started when they were 5! So stubborn me went ahead and put him in anyhow. So when he was 5 he went to school for about 2 weeks and it became painfully obvious to me that the teachers were right and I was wrong, so we pulled him out and had him wait to start Kindergarten the following year, which has worked out well for us.

He is in the honors/advanced classes and my brother in law used to say it's because we held him back, but the level of his advanced status is proof that this is not the case. Since elementary school he was always been in the advanced groups like in reading etc. and according to his test scores and ability, ever since he learned to read he has been 3 or more years ahead of most of his grade. For example in 5th grade he was at the reading/spelling level of a 9th grader. So had he been put in Kindergarten at the age of 5 he might only be 3 years ahead instead of 4, but still advanced intelligence wise. Even now he is still one of the smallest in his grade, but I'm 5 ft and his dads 5'6, so he comes by his short stature naturally and the odds are probably against him being tall. So yes, considering the kids maturity level and birth month IS most definitely a big issue to many when deciding whether or not your child should start on time or a year later.

by mom_of_a_4-yr_old July 9, 2012 1:31 PM EDT

I wish the school district take each child as their own person and judge them on their own, rather than lumping them into a group simply by birthday. I was 4 when I entered kindergarten and 21 when I graduated from college. My brother, born on December 30, also started at age 4, was valedictorian when he graduated from high school, and went straight through to his doctorate. Although he had done well in kindergarten and tested into the advanced class, the school placed him in a class for "slower" children simply because of his age. After two months, his teacher told my parents he was bored and the school moved him into the advanced class. My brother born in November went through the exact same scenario. The school district has since moved the cut-off from December 31 to October 1, and now he and I are fighting the school district to allow our children, both born in October, to enter kindergarten at 4 as we did. Her teachers say my daughter is ready mentally, emotionally and physically. How will spending another year in an over-crowded classroom, being taught things she already knows, be a benefit to her?

Reply to this comment


by NonPC July 9, 2012 3:26 PM EDT: "How will spending another year in an over-crowded classroom, being taught things she already knows, be a benefit to her?"
This is my quandary exactly.
My daughter is a Sept 14 birthday (here the cutoff is Sept. 1)
She will be moving from a small private school that does a grade level ahead in curriculum (raising the bar so that kids will rise up to it).
Unfortunately, since she was in "1st" grade at her school (with 2nd grade curriculum), she will have to go into 2nd grade in the fall.
That, coupled with her being one of the oldest in her classroom (and she is TALL and mature for her age, playing with 4-6 graders on our block) I am afraid she will get lazy and bored.
I contemplated putting her into the next grade, but the state makes kids take difficult exams (more difficult than the state standardized tests) and requires a 90 or above on ALL subject matters (math, reading, science and social studies). REALLY??
(I'm sorry, but i already know that the kids learn the same sci/soc. studies curriculum every year but at a more involved level, as evidenced by her older brother.)
To put her through these tests and her possibly scoring an 89 on all four or one and NOT getting advanced, seems cruel.
Also, I do not want her in HS being around possibly 20 year old "men" students.
In the long run, I'm sure that she'll be fine.
It's just maddening that the "system" is so f'd up.


by glamonica July 9, 2012 10:14 AM EDT: Thanks for reporting on red shirting. As an educator (have been for over 19 years) and a parent of twin 7 year olds, I had to make the challenging decision to keep my kids back or send them forward. I chose to send them forward, and as a result, they are one of the youngest kids in their class. What the program last night didn't report on was the teacher's perceptive. I have unique insight being a teacher for over 19 years, having a doctorate in education, and having young kids. So with my insight, why did I send my twin girls forward? What I noticed in students' learning over the years is that the kids that were moved forward have an early advantage of grasping the concepts quicker since they have had an extra year to learn them and possibly because of their maturity level, but it all evens out later in education. This happens around junior high and high school. At this time, the students' study habits and work ethic dictate how successful a student will be rather than their age. This is even more apparent in college. I have students in my classes that are older, but do not perform as well as the younger students because they don't work as hard, and possibly, are bored. The best advice to give parents is to establish good study habits early on in age. My husband and I (he is also a teacher) have read to our twins since they were born. Now almost every day (even in summer and on vacation), my kids read at least one book, play the piano, and do some math. We have taught our kids that learning is apart of life; that you will always be reading, thinking, etc. My twins do not know the difference. Lastly, one of my great professors in my education doctoral program told me when I complained to him about how hard his class was and how did he expect all of us to accomplish all of this work in one term, he replied, "students will strive to the level of expectations placed upon them." I have always remembered this and apply it to my teaching today. I also thought about this when sending my twins forward to kindergarten. Yes, they are the youngest, but they will strive to the level of learning placed upon them. Is that a bad thing?; Reply to this comment

See all 325 Comments

Popular Now in 60 Minutes Overtime

recommended

Follow 60 Minutes Overtime

Most Popular on CBS News

Stories More »

Videos More »

America's #1 News Program, Now on your iPad Download Now »

Recently on 60 Minutes

Michael Jackson's lucrative legacy
The Michael Jackson brand is alive and well-paid: the pop legend has made more money in death than he ever did alive. Lara Logan reports.
A Face in the Crowd: Say goodbye to anonymity
Even if your picture isn't on the Internet, computerized facial recognition makes it virtually impossible to keep your "faceprint" private. Lesley Stahl reports.
Afghan children on a long and perilous journey
Thousands of mostly teenage boys have fled their country to embark on a 10,000-mile trek to Europe in search of a better life. Anderson Cooper reports.
North Korean prisoner escaped after 23 brutal years
Born in a prison camp, Shin Dong-hyuk describes how three generations of a family are incarcerated if one family member is considered disloyal. Anderson Cooper reports.

60 Minutes on Facebook

Kindergarten "redshirting." What would you do?

Report offensive content:

E-mail this comment to a friend.

Follow 60 Minutes Overtime

48 Hours iPad App