Jerusalem: The City of David?

By: Overtime Staff
Topics: Overtime Original

There is no city in the world like Jerusalem, the intersection for three of the world's great religions. Christians believe Jesus worshipped and taught in Jerusalem and was later crucified there. For Muslims, it is home to both the Al Aqsa Mosque and the Dome of the Rock. Jews consider it to be their ancient capital, first conquered by King David, 3,000 years ago.

Watch Lesley Stahl's full report.

At an archeology site known as "The City of David," there is an active search for evidence of King David, as Lesley Stahl reported in her "60 Minutes" story this week. For "60 Minutes Overtime," we dug deeper into the controversial role that archeology can play in proving the Bible.

Does faith require proof? We want to hear what you think.

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by mtntexas December 15, 2010 4:32 PM EST: Bad news for all you religious fanatics: My great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great Uncle Fred owned that property and I want it back. I'm gonna level all those "sacred sites" and build a pornographic amusement park. You've got 30 days to vacate and find something else to kill each other over.; Reply to this comment


by eliroberts November 16, 2010 2:59 AM EST: Silwan was a Jewish neighborhood until 1948 when it came under control of Jordan as the British Empire fell. It was only then that the Jews were expelled from that region of Jerusalem, as well as the Old City itself. Arabs moved in to homes in the City of David with Jordanian control. I suggest looking at the original deeds. Who owns the bulk
of the homes?

Dating back to the Ottoman Empire and before, Jews have owned and lived in the City of David continuously for roughly 2500 years. In fact, many of the properties in the City of David now inhabited by Arabs are actually owned by Jews from pre-1948 - at least according to Ottoman-era deeds - but the political situation has made evicting the
homes' current inhabitants nearly impossible as they've been squatting for decades. The problem is not limited to the City of David: The Old City and its immediate surroundings has a severe problem with squatting and eventual claims of ownership by inhabitants of buildings deeded to others. Ask the Greek Orthodox landlords who own most of the Muslim and Christian Quarters about this, and you'll get more than
an earful.

This is merely one major flaw in the story. Beyond, the denial of King David's presence in the City of David is completely correct as he himself lived near the Temple Mount complex, but Stahl mischaracterized that point. King David lived around 800BCE, pre-dating the construction of the City of David around 500 BCE. King David only came in contact with the spring the fed the Old City in that area that later became the City of David, as during his rule, the city had not expanded to urbanize the zone around the spring. The name
'City of David' was merely given as a commemoration of David's rule of Jerusalem. It is worth noting that the neighborhood was entirely inhabited by Jews then, too, and that it was once within the Old City walls.

Other errors exist within the report, but even more troubling was that there really seemed to be some serious side-taking in the questioning. Lesley pointed out with a laugh of irony that the Palestinian man's taxes pay for Israeli security, yet never failed to paint a negative
picture of Israelis - from Nir Barkat to the leader of the
archaeological dig to the Jews living in the City of David. All the while, she gave disproportionate weight to Arab claims, without noting that Arab families in Silwan are new as of the last 60 years, and showed a lack of historical understanding. I might add that the Palestinian man's claim to the neighborhood is not infallible simply because his grandmother was born there. Given the history of the
neighborhood, it's highly likely that her family took over a Jewish home at some point. Very rarely are people able to make an argument that they're still entitled to a property even after they've been paid by a buyer for it - and when the same people likely got the property through squatting decades earlier.

As a journalist myself who has lived in the Christian Quarter of the Old City, I understand that it takes more than a long time to intimately understand the dynamics of Jerusalem and the Old City area, but that does not excuse shallow reporting.; Reply to this comment


by Jerusalemite November 6, 2010 3:46 PM EDT: I would like to make a few (often overlooked)important points:

1.Until the middle of the 18th century Jerusalem was an unimpressive forgotten dot in the Ottoman Empire - the small local Arab population, had little control of the city. (1800 barely 7500 total)

2.Jerusalem was NEVER supposed to be an Arab city. According to the UN partition plan on 1947 it was to be under an interim status for 10 years at which time a referendum would be held to as its final status. Part of the Jewish State or the Arab state. As Jerusalem had a Jewish majority since the 1860s, it was obvious to the writers of this plan what the outcome would be.This plan has no legal status, as the Jews reluctantly agreed, even though it cut off Historically important areas in the rest of the country, but the Arabs violently responded.

3. Until 1860 few residents left the Old City walls. The first to venture out were Jews looking to improove their situation. The Adlers live in a house that was built by the JEWISH Meyuchas family in the 1870's!!! They would still be there if not violently expelled by the Arab riots (and the British).

4. Take a look at this picture:
http://www.loc.gov/pictures/collection/matpc/item/2006686287/

and this one: http://blog.bibleplaces.com/2008/02/excavations-and-politics-in-city-of.html
most of the area in question were build in the last 40 years.

5. Clinton's plan was never viable!!! It would have never worked. There is no reason to begin the debate there. By the way I guided two of Clinton's aides in the City of David a few years after the failed attempt at Camp David. After touring the are they both agreed "We should have been here before" the accords.

6. Today, groups in Israel and in Europe are working to de-legitimize Jewish presence in all of Israel and in Jerusalem. While the interest in finding a workable solution between Arabs and Jews is an important goal many people involved in the protests, are in the end, interested in tossing the Jews not just out of Jerusalem but also into the sea.

We do not have to agree to that.
Thank you.

Asher Altshul
Jerusalem; Reply to this comment

by bythesea15 October 31, 2010 11:22 AM EDT

This was a terribly one sided report. The Mayor was disrespected and I did not agree with Ms. Stahl's obviously Anti-Jewish sentiment. Haven't we always been taught that the news remains neutral and reports as many perspectives as possible. If you are going to produce an opinion piece, then call it what it is, "60 Opinionated Minutes", or the "60 Minute Indoctrination."

Reply to this comment


by Bishadi November 3, 2010 12:56 PM EDT: Bythesea15, the per se mayor, of jeruselem was not voted in by the people of jeruselem. So that person has no right to represent what happens in jeruselem.

by auidavid October 31, 2010 5:45 AM EDT

To the preceding comment:
Israel has defined itself to be a Jewish state; Jerusalem being the long-standing religious center in Jewish history. The controversy here is inevitably a religious premise for both sides. Otherwise there's have no reason fighting for control over the same area. Religiously and historically, the entire city of Jerusalem is sacred to Judaism, while the Dome of the Rock is the only landmark inside of Jerusalem sacred to the Muslim religion. If you need evidence is needed for chronological proof, you can't deny the fact that the Dome of the Rock is presently sitting right on the Holy center of the existing Second Temple.
Although the United Nations does not recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, this does not mean that it by default belongs to Palestinians. The United Nations believes that Jerusalem should be run internationally, which has proven not to have worked in the past (Berlin), and especially with the sensitivity to the religious issue here, there is no international group that could arbitrate the situation. Even if this could possibly work, the Palestinian National Charter states it will use "armed struggle" to gain power over Palestine since resolution 242 and there is still no evidence that this goal will subside in the efforts for a ?Palestinian state.?
Also, if you missed it, the argument of this video is about who has jurisdiction over a specific part of Jerusalem, Silwan. Silwan is so close to the biblical site in East Jerusalem is because the Jordan army conquered the area in 1948, not because of the claimed Palestinian occupation for so many years.
You say that Stahl is not taking sides, but she only questions Judaism for its individuals and fails to request any proof from other religions that claim control over this area. How about Leslie Stahl prove to me that George Washington crossed the Delaware River.

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by Bishadi November 3, 2010 12:54 PM EDT: a u i david, How is something sacred, that is fenced in?

How is it, that the torah, renders "do not cross the jordan" and yet, it was done in 67'? The Dome of the Rock, is one of the oldest standing buildings on the earth. No matter which religion, that site is a historical landmark to mankind. No belief in our modern age should be allowed to cause such division within mankind over a religious belief. Leslie Stahl, has not need of questioning the religious beliefs but instead questioned the people of what THEIR intent was and the reporting shares that 'religious belief' is why the encroachment upon Silwan even exists. It means the archeological dig is not to observe compassion, Love or anything to sustain peace in the region, but that the religious quest is the underlying desire of the people digging, supporting and even fighting, for. Religious belief that has created an identity, that one side has MORE rights, than another side, when all are of ONE species (mankind), is the rube to the whole middle-eastern divide. ie... the corrupt are the believers who actually try to sustain, they are chosen over another by God.


by eliroberts November 16, 2010 2:52 PM EST: Israel did not cross the Jordan in '67. The Jordan River separates Israel and Jordan today.

And the Dome of the Rock is not one of the oldest standing buildings on Earth. It dates to around 800AD/CE, making it one of the newer buildings in the Old City, and by comparison, much younger than many structures throughout both Europe and Asia.

Get your facts straight.

I might add that the Ottomans built the Dome of the Rock right on the Temple Mount - the holiest spot in Judaism - which existed for 1300 years before the construction of the Dome and 1100 years before Islam existed. It was an act of great desecration to construct on Judaism's holiest spot. Just imagine how the Muslim world would react if today the Catholics razed Mecca and built a church, or if Islam razed Saint Peter's in Rome and built a mosque.


by Bishadi October 25, 2010 6:13 PM EDT: I am glad Ms. Stahl was allowing good quality reporting by simply letting the interviewed people answer the questions. How many noticed she did not choose a side but rather asked relevant questions to share the reason why the archeological dig is even occurring; because of religious belief versus the rights and wrongs of even being there. The UN and the majority on the earth already know that Jeruselem is not within the approved borders of Israel. UN Resolution 476 and 478 put that into a clear perspective irregardless to religious belief. To me the comprehension of maintaining the integrity to the laws and practices of right and wrong, supercedes the religious beliefs of wingnuts. I often wonder if it were jews and christians within the concentration camp (Gaza) how long that situation would last. No matter, as i am just happy that 60 Minutes and Ms. Stahl had the moxy to publish such an article as this "City of David?" question, so that anyone can see it is not the reporting bias but the religious bias that has ruined the Middle East.; Reply to this comment


by afin1275 October 24, 2010 9:18 PM EDT: Everyone is entitled to their opinion and both sides have a valid point... Fact is that the Palestinians know how to play the PITY GAME with the outside world... They r the ones that are having bombs on busses killing innocent civilians, throwing missilles to innocent civilians throwing stones. e.tc... you'll never ever see that in Jerusalem. Jew sees an arab going to Mosque and start throwing stones and being voilent...??? NEVER as opposed to whenever a jew need to go to any of Arab lands they need special busses, plus security... and the funny thing it was proved time and time again that the very biased BBC was wrong with footage they showed on Tv and it was all a hoax... Palestinians don't all have money, because the goverment controls it, and they use it for terrorism, they don't help... Excuse me?!?! How many arabs are being employed by Jews?!?! They even go through the gates... and OMG... one was shot?!? EVERY COUNTRY HAS A RIGHT TO DEFEND THEMSELVES... If there's border control in USA why can't Israel?!?!? And it was funny how Leslie was shocked about the Arab paying taxes for the security.... LMAO... MOST AMERICANS DON'T HAVE MONEY TO PAY THEIR BASIC BILLS, but my taxes are going to wars in other countries..et.c... If Israel has to be given back land, so why does USA have a right to be independent.... The Indians were here first and now they don't even have a right to give cigarettes et..c.. you know come on!?? Israel is the ONLY democratic country in Middle East that lets everyone practice their own religion in their own way... There's Christian, Muslim... et..c.. there... and God forbid if you find a Christian or Jew in Lebanon or Syria etc.... forget it... they'll shoot you and torture you.... I'M JUST AN HUMBLE AMERICAN NON - COMMITTED RELIGION CITIZEN AND I CAN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT'S EVERYONES BUSINESS, LIVE AND LET LIVE.... Life is too short... Give Israel a break, if Israel wouldn't be in existence the Hamas and Fatah would kill each other and so would all othere Arab nations, they love to terrorize their wives, they love to terrorize all democratic countries, and they feel they own the world... not only ISRAEL... they start there and the next step is your country..... Good Luck!; Reply to this comment

by e1kap October 24, 2010 12:09 PM EDT

Ms. Stahl dispensed with serious journalism, the kind that involves research and fact-checking. Instead, she simply followed the playbook of Time Magazine, the Economist, and BBC's "Panorama," calling on the same cast of characters,repeating the samedistorted claims and reading from the same overall script. Echoing colleagues at the aforementioned media outlets, Ms. Stahl demonstrated how to promote Arab political propaganda with shoddy and partisan journalism.
One of the main obstacles in previous peace-making efforts has been Arab unwillingness to accept Israel as a Jewish state and Muslim denial of Judaism's historical and religious ties to Jerusalem. U.S. negotiator Dennis Ross complained that during the July 2000 negotiations at Camp David, Palestinian leader Yasir Arafat's only contribution was his refusal to acknowledge Jewish ties to Jerusalem, claiming the Jewish Temple never existed there.
When talks resumed in Taba later that year, the Israelis agreed to full Palestinian sovereignty on the Temple Mount, but requested Palestinians acknowledge the sacredness of the place to Judaism. They refused. (See "The Battle Over Jerusalem and the Temple Mount ") Moreover, Palestinian leaders not only deny the existence of Jewish holy sites in Jerusalem, they falsely allege that Jews are trying to takeover or destroy Muslim holy sites there. In that way, they follow the lead of Jerusalem Mufti and Nazi sympathizer Haj al Amin Husseini who so successfully incited anti-Jewish rioting in the1920's by making his battle cry "Defend Muslim Holy Sites."

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by WalterJameson October 24, 2010 2:48 PM EDT: The underlying occupation of land that had been a predominately Muslim area for over 1000 years is the "elephant in the room" that no one dare talk about (at least in the USA). I understand a famous reporter recently had to resign by inadvertently speaking her mind. I wish there was someway to convince our fellow citizens that the USA is their true home and that most of us would fight at all costs to preserve their right to live here without the slightest discrimination. Their presence in the USA has been a blessing to us all a thousand times over. The occupation of Palestine by Europeans was always going to be a problem. It was just a matter of time before the "return to homeland" propaganda failed. It was one thing to colonize in the new world in the 1500-1800s where the local population was unconnected to the outside world. It has been quite a different problem to start such an effort in the 20th century against what was a prosperous, educated population. Timing is everything: much was tolerated in the prior centuries that would not be tolerated by 1948. UN charters and xxx BC claims to land, will not change the modern reality. Had the 20th century Europeans who occupied Palestine tried to create a multi-religion pluralistic state, I would be more understanding. But a "Jewish" state is probably not what a Muslim family in Palestine would have thought of as reasonable in 1948. Nor did this family lose its rights because neighboring states also tried to occupy the land but were stopped by the Europeans. Imagine your home, the home that had been in your family for 100 years or longer, being designated by others in a group in NY City (i.e., the U.N.) as being part of a Mormon state, except that you happen to be a Catholic family. Two wrongs don?t make a right especially in that the Palestinians were not responsible for what happened in Europe during WWII or in Arab countries after 1948. Perhaps the UN should have issued letters to Muslim families: "Please move to Jordan (whether you are welcome there or not), we have decided that your land will be part of a Jewish state; sorry for any inconvenience this may cause but you will just have to move." The term "terrorist" has been used by the occupiers and in the West as a key element of the pro-occupation propaganda. During the US revolutionary war, I am sure the British saw US militia as terrorists because they often refused to fight in an open field where British regulars had the advantage. For Palestinians who were displaced, the so-called "terrorists" are soldiers in a civil war with limited means of attack. Citizens of the US whatever their ethnicity or creed should see this conflict objectively and re-pledge their allegiance to the US and not take sides in the ongoing civil war. For those who doubt the power of a pro-occupation lobby in the US, I suggest they consider that US citizens who financially support Israel are considered mainstream; US citizens who financially support Hamas can be prosecuted under US law. Consider US citizens advocating for Jason Pollard's release when they know he breached his duty of loyalty to the US as US Navy intelligence officer. What matters most to me is that our U.S. people and especially our children not be harmed by Islamic terrorists attacking on U.S. soil on the pretext that the U.S supports the occupation of Palestine by Europeans (and some North Americans) on religious grounds of reclaiming a homeland. Why are so many of my fellow U.S. citizens putting us at risk by taking sides in this conflict? I wish there was a solution to the occupation of Palestine, but what I care most about is that my own fellow US citizens avoid further dragging the US into this impossible situation. I don't see what the US has to gain by supporting the occupiers other than a "supporter of genocide" label. No amount of rhetoric will justify forcing the land of a Muslim family into a "Jewish state." Occupiers often have a rough time unless they succeed in wiping out the indigenous population. I don't want the US associated with such genocide. Moreover, I don't want the US associated with the land grab by a thousand settlements. The map published by the BBC is shocking; I had no idea there were so many settlements throughout the West Bank. ( http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-11429959 )


by Bishadi October 23, 2010 1:08 PM EDT: Harik, it seems perhaps you have your facts mixed up with belief. Try archeology over the concept of religion. To comprehend that the Egyptian Pharoahs controlled Canaan and Babylonia throughout all the land called palestine and israel during the period of '3000' years ago, than it seems the beliefs are not the historical fact. I mean, if the land called Israel was held by Egypt, then what is an Exodus to Israel?

http://www.lost-civilizations.net/ancient-egypt-egiptian-pharaoh-akhenaten-nefertiti-page-5.html

Most do not comprehend Akhanatan is who combined the God(s) to a single god. Most do not know that the language Akkadian is the consonant only language used in Canaan..................... Here is a clip to assist you in evolving with what is real;

*****The majority of the Amarna tablets are letters. These letters were sent to the Egyptian Pharaohs Amenophis III and his son Akhenaten around the middle of the 14th century B.C. The correspondents were kings of Babylonia, Assyria, Hatti and Mitanni, minor kings and rulers of the Near East at that time, and vassals of the Egyptian Empire.*******

********Three thousand years ago, the rebel Pharaoh Akhenaten preached monotheism and enraged the Nile Valley. Less than 100 years after Akhenaten's death, Moses would be preaching monotheism on the bank of the Nile River, to the Israelis*******

Is Akhentatan the pharoah of the 'schism'?; Reply to this comment


by hariks October 22, 2010 11:10 PM EDT: I was so disappointed in this segment. The Jews have a 3000 year connection to Israel and Jerusalem.Mohammad was never in Jerusalem and mentions it not one time in the Koran. Mufti Husseni, a Radical Islamist worked with Hitler to create the final solution and together with his Egyptain born yasir Arafat created the Palestinian Arab Myth. Before 1967, the Arab refugees never even called themselves Palesinian which was the name that the British called the Jews as an insult to Israel.The Romans named the land of Israel Palestine after expelling the Jews no connection to Arabs and the land lay in waste duning the time the brutal Ottoman's held it. Mark Twain visited the Holy land in 1867 and saw desolation and no Arab nation there only communites of Jews and bedouins and Jerusalem was majority Jewish. 900,000 Jewish people were evicted from Arab countries when Israel was formed. In 1948, Jordan attacked Israel and illegally took East Jerusalem and pushed Jews out of their homes burning temples and churches.There never was a Palestinian Arab nation and according to the San Remos 1920 agreement, Israel was supposed to get its biblical borders back including GH, WB, Gaza and Jlem. The British reneged and carved up the area giving Arab clans land. Jordan, the true Arab palestine is a new creation as is most of the countries of the ME except Israel which has a real biblical history. The PR propaganda machine against Israel which spreads revisionist lies was once again at work during this segment and Stahl stated her opinion as fact and did a great disservice to her readership. Without researching true history, she reguritated the Anti Israeli garbage and damaged her own journalistic integrity. Silwan and all the Jewish neighborhoods of Jerusalem have a right to build. Israel does not occupy Jerusalem it is the capital of Israel. Radical Islam is at war with the US constitution and hurts all peoples of the world. It is working thru these Arabs who have been kept in limbo not by Israel but by the bloated Islamic Arab dictorships who deny human rights to their own people and now are being used by the Iranian mullahs who kill their own people while setting up Hamas, Hizbollah and have made the Palestinian Arab their own sacrificial lamb to be used against the one country that has every right to exist and which is protection all the western freedoms of press and speech, women and gay rights, cultural and religious diversity. Stahl has failed her viewers with tabloid like statements repeating lies that do not hold up to true history. Read the truth
http://www.hudson-ny.org/1609/jerusalem-sacred-for-muslims

http://www.jcpa.org/JCPA/Templates/ShowPage.asp?DBID=1&LNGID=1&TMID=111&FID=625&PID=0&IID=2682

http://israelagainstterror.blogspot.com/2010/05/history-of-jewish-sovereignty-over.html

http://israelagainstterror.blogspot.com/2010/05/israeli-sovereignty-over-jerusalem_20.html

http://israelagainstterror.blogspot.com/2010/05/israeli-sovereignty-over-jerusalem.html

http://israelagainstterror.blogspot.com/2008/11/israel-occupies-no-arab-territories.html

http://israelagainstterror.blogspot.com/2010/03/two-jerusalems-myth.html

http://israelagainstterror.blogspot.com/2010/05/rejoice-on-jerusalem-day.html

http://www.onejerusalem.org/2009/10/the-real-truth-about-israel-an.php
http://www.jcpa.org/JCPA/Templates/ShowPage.asp?DRIT=2&DBID=1&LNGID=1&TMID=111&FID=443&PID=0&IID=4724&TTL=Israel_as_the_Nation-State_of_the_Jewish_People:_From_the_San_Remo_Conference_(1920)_to_the_Netanyahu-Abbas_Talks

http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/
http://palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=487
http://palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=623
http://palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=762

http://israelagainstterror.blogspot.com/2008/11/israel-occupies-no-arab-territories.html
://israehttplagainstterror.blogspot.com/2010/08/truth-about-occupation-and-settlements.html
http://israelagainstterror.blogspot.com/2010/07/why-islam-will-never-accept-state-of.html
http://www.hudson-ny.org/1437/classic-islamic-view-of-jews
http://www.hudson-ny.org/1507/classic-islamic-view-of-jews-ii
http://www.hudson-ny.org/1616/palestinian-refugees

http://rubinreports.blogspot.com/2010/10/in-international-affairs-naivete-is.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Rubinreports+%28RubinReports%29
http://israelagainstterror.blogspot.com/2010_05_16_archive.html

Read the First and second testament; Reply to this comment

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