January 20, 2011 3:36 PM

"Tiger Mom's" Kids are Totally Going to Kick Your Kid's Butts

By
Neil Katz
Topics
News ,
Kids and family

Amy Chua

"Tiger Mom" Amy Chua in 2007. (AP Photo/Larry D. Moore)


(CBS) Readers may be fuming about how "Tiger Mom" Amy Chua raised her children, but there's one thing she's pretty clear about - they're going to your kids' butts.

In a Wall Street Journal essay, a "Today" show appearance, and a now best-selling book, "Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother," Chua argues that Chinese mothers work their kids harder, expect more out of them and are generally rewarded with offspring that excel in school, careers and life.

Western parents who worry whether "learning is fun" and fret over damaging their children's self esteem, she says, are really just damaging their chances for success.

"Chinese parents demand perfect grades because they believe that their child can get them. If their child doesn't get them, the Chinese parent assumes it's because the child didn't work hard enough," she wrote in the Journal. "That's why the solution to substandard performance is always to excoriate, punish and shame the child."

Chua knows a thing or two about achieving, as a graduate of Harvard Law who teaches at Yale and has two previous books under her belt. She's also quick to point out that she's not all stick; successful children are lavishly praised and rewarded.  Chua says the book is more self-deprecating and even handed then her controversial article.

Still, Chua has taken heat from all corners: angry moms, huffing talking heads, and of course, many of those "lax" parents she berated. Maybe some of them weren't so lax after all.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?
Are American parents too soft or is "Tiger Mom" sending future generations to the therapist's couch?


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by dchang11 December 13, 2011 4:01 PM EST
You don't need to be super smart and get straight A's in order to be successful. I am an Asian American about to start college next fall and does not fall into the stereotypical Asian category. I know numerous success and failure stories. My dad, who was not a bright kid until midway through high school is now a successful computer consultant, who is getting tons of job offers in this recession. As a student about to graduate from high school, same story. Although I worked hard in school work, I had to overcome an academic disability and it took me till the end of 10th grade to overcome it. I even had to persuade my guidance counselor to allow me in AP and Honors classes because I was not qualified. (I actually succeeded in those classes from Day 1 without the "Asian pressure.")

The reason why my parents did not pressure me was for several reasons. One of them was because of my academic disability, fearing it would cause more damage to me and I would turn into an angry, depressed kid. Second, it was because they knew the keys to success in life: such as having self-determination, desire, and pride. Not setting bars of getting A's and Harvard. That is how my dad became successful in his field, he did not go to a prestigious university and is succeeding beyond his expectations.

Many of my friends believe that my parents are one of those depicted in Tiger Mom because I spent my junior year studying my ass off. The reason I was doing that is because I was trying to regain the grades lost because of my disability since it would have a profound effect on college admissions and took greater lengths to prepare for the AP US History Exam without taking the class. Regardless of regaining academic ground, I would not have succeeded these huge obstacles without learning the importance of self-determination, desire, and pride.

Now, I understand why some Asians are brought up under the "Tiger Mom" lifestyle. One of the beliefs many East Asian cultures have is that academic success is the key to succeeding in life. It started a long time ago in ancient China when the only ticket out of poverty was to be a politician. In order to do so, people have to take this impossible civil service exam so they can take their family and village into prosperity. Winners would work for the government and potentially marry into the royal family. Losers return to poverty. Families and villages would go to great lengths in order for that success to happen, and failing to do so would be a shame for the people around them and their ancestors.

In the modern world, the prize to succeed is a prestigious education and a successful career that will bring home the "fat paycheck." The Asian tradition may work in Asia, but probably not in the states. Keep in mind that both Asian and American culture are two completely different ideologies, and since Asians are considered as a minority, the American ideology would probably win. Lots of Asians are well educated, but the success rate of being on the top of the ladder is extremely low.

If Asian parents embraced more of the American culture, then the Asian success rate in America would go up. My dad knew the keys to success in America and is succeeding beyond his expectations. My work ethic and academic pride at school has gotten numerous praise from teachers and peers, one saying it was a honor for having me in his class. Only a small handful of students get this remark, and Asians rarely get this.

I believe the best method for success in America is embracing the values of self-determination, self-desire, and pride. It is the key in achieving in the classroom and real world.
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by john2320 June 24, 2011 1:29 AM EDT
Did a teacher give Einstein a test and a grade on the

theories of relativity ? Did a teacher tell Einstein

to invent the theories of relativity ? Getting good

grades is just a basic beginning in education . Good

grades are a part of education , not everything . Did

Newton invent the laws of motion and the laws of

thermodynamics , because a teacher told him to invent

them ? Are the Chua daughters going to be innovators

and inventors , or mediocre go-through-the-motions

workers . We need to promote inner inspiration and

inner positive cheerful desire to work hard . We need

to deal with tough challenges . How about teaching

children to find their way out of the woods , when they

are lost , or how to climb a small mountain ? (with a

lot of safety backup , and emergency rescue services

close by) . Thank you . john2320
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by camptanuga May 2, 2011 10:24 PM EDT
Sorry Tiger lady........check out this post. The lesser Tiger Mom at
http://dimsumanddoughnuts.blogspot.com/
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by Tiger_Moms_Network February 24, 2011 10:00 PM EST
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by picklemaestro February 22, 2011 6:43 PM EST
At the heart of this controversy is the age-old dilemma of how to raise your child so that they are self-sufficient and above all, happy. Whether you emphasize strict rules or "allow the tree to grow naturally" - the only magic ingredient I see that seems to work is that you do what you believe to be in the best interests of your child. As overly simplistic as that sounds, what I am trying to say is that Amy Chua is like any other parent - she wants what's best for her kids.

My only problem with the achievement-based approach to raising a child is that it doesn't answer the ultimate question: What is my purpose? Kids are pushed to become the 'best', but they are not pushed to use those skills and that knowledge in a way that benefits the community. So what we have is generations of high-performing kids who ultimately can only do one thing - take care of themselves. I can use music as an example, since I am by profession, a music teacher.

I live and work in southern California, where the hard-pushing Asian parent is a common factor. In one sense, it is nice, because I run into a lot of talented, capable performers. But largely, it is a pain in the ass, because trying to run an orchestra where every kid NEEDS to be sitting in the principal chair is a nightmare.The biggest roblem is that most of these students and parents see the principal chair as one thing - a confirmation that their kid is the best. They want to see that star next to their kid's name in the program, and add "principal ____________" to their college resume. The part they miss, is that the principal chair in any section isn't an honor as much as it is a leadership position. Principals are expected to work harder. they are expected to look out for their section, correct mistakes in their section, provide positive role models, work with other principals, and above all - uphold the directives of the conductor and/or the concertmaster. It is not enough to just be the best cellist in the room.

Violinists are a particular problem, because they take being assigned to 2nd violin as a slap in the face. There is this thing in the music world, where people seem to think that Mozart wrote 2nd violin parts so that the firsts can feel better about themselves. Nonsense! the 2nd violin parts fill important harmonic functions and you need good players on them. Even filling the role of principal second can be difficult, since no kid who feels they 'deserve' a first chair would take even a leadership role among the seconds... and truthfully, I tend not to trust kids with that attitude with ANY leadership duties at all. In short, I usually end up with a handful of people who are good players, but ultimately useless to me, because they think only of themselves, not of the good of the group.

Probably the saddest thing to see in a competitive musician is a complete lack of understanding of what the music-making process is all about. Competition is important because it does motivate kids to practice, but it isn't the end-all. Ask a kid what the hardest piece they ever learned and they'll tell you in an instant. It's probably the one they're the most proud of, too. But then ask them which on is the most beautiful piece they ever performed, and they might not even understand the question. Brahms, Mozart, Chopin... we're training kids that these men are achievement hurdles to jump over, not living, breathing people who had some insight into the universe and into the human condition. And the biggest crime of all is to play Beethoven without trying to touch the fiery heart of the man who wrote it (or as he said himself "Wrong notes are inconsequential, to play with out passion is inexcusable. ")

This is not to say that every hard-working, competitive kid is narcissistic self-serving, and shallow. But in the end, there are other qualities that are vital to a person's success. Other values that they need to have, otherwise, what is the point?
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by john2320 June 24, 2011 1:20 AM EDT
Dear picklemaestro , It is nice to get comments from a person who is concerned with the forest , not just some of the trees . I sing and improvise on the piano , because I like music . I have had very little formal training . My dad sang in the basement , while he was washing clothes , such as "My Bonnie Lies Over the Ocean." and "Pistol Packin' Mama" . I learned American songs and Broadway musical songs in elementary school music classes . I sing every day . Most people , whom I know , don't like to sing , except with a karaoke machine once in a while . I don't need to turn on the radio , when I am driving a car . I have a lot of music inside my head . Sometimes , I dream or imagine that I am in a large church in Europe , maybe Germany . I hear the music , and I walk toward the person who is playing the piano or organ . Maybe the person is Beethoven . Maybe , I would like to go to classical music concerts , but I like to move my arms and hands , when I am listening to music . I liked the movies "Amadeus" and "Mr. Holland's Opus" . If you have any recordings of your music , I would like to listen to them . I like the song "Sing , sing a song." , with the words "Don't worry that it's not good enough for anyone else to hear." . Thank you . john2320
by Katee101 February 19, 2011 1:19 PM EST
I am a daughter of Chinese immigrants and to a certain degree can understand where Amy Chua is coming from. However, I do not agree on the excessive ways she is parenting to an extreme. There has to be some balance where the children have some say otherwise they will learn to hate what they are made to do. The reason alot of immigrant children do excel and choose to is for a better way of life. Having seen their own parents work for minimal wages, struggle, face discrimation, and not have the education motivates the need to succeed. Living here in America, education and hard work is the key to freedom to choose a better way of life and there are no free rides.
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by Sheri_Noga_MA February 7, 2011 11:00 AM EST
As a psychotherapist in private practice for 30 years and the author of a book on parenting, I"m not surprised that American parents are considering a memoir as a guide for child rearing. American children are more depressed, anxious, entitled and unmotivated than they have been in many years. Parents are over-indulging children in most areas - material goods, bad behavior, and praise for the most mundane of accomplishments. Being an authoritative, yet loving parent produces the most well-adjusted and happy children. It's not that hard. American parents need to educate themselves.
I have posted a video parody of tiger mom, for those who want a smile. Go to Youtube and put "Tiger mother, Shmiger mother" in the search.
Sheri Noga - "Have the Guts to Do it Right: Raising Grateful and Responsible Children in an Era of Indulgence"
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by huatut123 January 30, 2011 9:22 PM EST
Being a first generation chinese american, I can say that with all my heart that I like some of the things said in this book, and I dislike some. It both fuels the stereotype that we memorize and work unreasonably hard without thought or liberties. From the outside looking in, this may look true: I am in the top of my class, I play violin and piano, I work hard etc. However, it's important to understand that not all of us are like the ones portrayed in this book. There ARE chinese americans who may fit into the stereotype in this book perfectly, but it's not as common as you think. It IS more than common in China though. I don't particularly excel in mathematics, even though my grades say otherwise: I'm better at other things including philosophy and writing, things that require THINKING. I agree with the fact that if you just memorize and memorize material, it doesn't encourage critical thinking, but it's not like Chinese American kids are literally robots. The theory behind the extreme memorization is that children should memorize and memorize when they are young so that they have a huge knowledge base from which to draw from when critically thinking later on. Hardly as bad as you thought, huh? However, the tragedy is that when you're surrounded by friends who get mediocre grades, hang out afterschool everyday, don't play an instrument etc., it's easy to compare yourself to others. When this happens, it's like east vs. west when adolescence kicks in.
All this being said, what I've learned is that I'm a strange mix of east and west. I enjoy and cherish moments with my best friends, yet I still keep up with my priorities extremely well. I watch TV, chat online, yet I choose my moments to do so as to not lose focus on my work. I have sleepovers, but not quite as often as other kids. I work hard, but not unnecessarily hard. I play violin and piano, yet I happen to choose them as a child. I was taught to respect the opinions of teachers, to trust them to educate me, not blindly follow the ideas of a singular person who is deemed academically superior. My parents have high expectations of me, but it's my own drive that pushes me to be the best that I can, not a domineering uber-mom that forces hard work. What I've taken from both chinese and western mom philosophies is that hard work, drive and a sense of priority really does point you to the right direction for success especially when you're young, yet there would be no point in working hard if you don't know why you're working hard. I work hard so that I have success in whatever I'm going to do when I grow up, but I work hard because I want to, it's a human quality that I embrace cognitively; I'm not programmed to work hard nor do I do it out of fear. It's important to do well in life, in terms of success and money so that you can enjoy life to the fullest. My chinese mom philosophy pointed me in the right direction for success, giving me the tools to do so, and my western mom philosophy taught me how to enjoy that success and taught me that's important to WANT to learn as well.
Again, another point is that this situation is not nearly as binary as what is portrayed in the book. I might be describing my situation, and chinese americans could be going "what the hell is he talking about?" and I'm fully aware of that. The point is that this is a stupid thing to argue about: let people have their own way of living life. Humans have been arguing for hundreds and hundreds of years on the right way to live, but isn't it beautiful that we have so many people arguing now about how they all can make their children as happy and as successful as possible? Isn't the point of both philosophies to live a good life? I don't know about you, but I'm not going to waste my life deciding what is best for my life. The truth is that nobody is right, otherwise this argument wouldn't have even started. What we all need to do is respect each others' opinions, maybe even learn from each other (I know, shocking!), and just keep on progressing from there.
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by jmountfort6400 January 28, 2011 10:37 AM EST
Amy Chua thinks, or needs to believe, that she did a good job as a parent and now thinks you need to copy her methods. Anyone who is (or believes him/herself to be) successful tends to look back into their past and see nothing but causes for their success. It's just like the guy who lives to be 120 and figures its because he ate raw pig fat for breakfast -- "duhh, I was doing that, and I lived to be 120, so it must be the reason." Of course, they could also attribute their longevity to the sun rising at the commencement of every day they were alive, and with better reasons.

No doubt some kids will respond well to the opposing ego of a Tiger Mom -- probably because whatever made the Tiger Mom a Tiger Mom is also part of the Tiger Kid. But it is stupid and irresponsible to suggest on the basis of one's tiny sphere of experience that everyone should be a Tiger Mom.

BTW: I have lived in CHina. I have sent a child to school in CHina. There is no more likelihood of a kid being happy or successful from being forced to be so in this supposedly CHinese manner (most Chinese parents tend to be very forceful about education, but to say that Chua's style is typical of Chinese people is simply untrue). Kids don't suddenly develop aptitudes because their parents refused to settle for low performance. What Chua leaves out, because she didn't bother to look for it (why would an egotist of such magnitude be worrying about the kids whom other Tiger Moms around her were breaking on the wheel?), are the psychological problems, addictions, failure, and resignation to being a failure suffered by many of these kids. SHe also fails to notice that CHinese culture provides things that ameliorate some of the ills of this method of parenting, but our does not (a topic too big to get into here). There is an entire field of study in Hong King and mainland China devoted to overcoming the problems created by the style of parenting Chua describes. Apparently, though, Chua couldn't be bothered to consult with any facts before sharing her thoughts on this important matter.

Amy Chua is an ignoramus: a know-nothing who just can't keep her opinions to herself. Please don't worry yourself over anything this media-seeking missile has to say. If she really believed in herself, she wouldn't have felt the need to write the book.
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by 982645david January 27, 2011 12:15 AM EST
I'm not a smart guy compared to many other kids in school, I was not raised in a smart family, but what I have learned from my mother and uncle through life in US. Living in US is very difficult if you don't have education. However, it doesn't have to be a extremely smart to have a bright future....by reading this all I have to say if this Tiger Mom stick with her tradition "Chinese" husband she would have taught her kids better way of life. By all means! stop making the kids brains like your.
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