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By

Aina Hunter /

CBS News/ June 25, 2010, 1:40 PM

Abortion Debate: Fetuses Can't Feel Pain Until 24 Weeks, Controversial Study Says

(CBS)

(CBS/AP) Can fetuses feel pain? A new study suggests that they probably can't - at least not until the final months of a woman's pregnancy.

According to a British study by the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, a human fetus cannot feel pain before the age of 24 weeks. It echoes an American study which put the age at 28 weeks.

The new study says that nerve connections in the brain are not sufficiently formed to allow pain perception before then. Even after 24 weeks, the doctors in the study say there is increasing evidence that the fetus is in a state of "continuous sleep-like unconsciousness or sedation."

The government-commissioned study is a setback for British anti-abortion activists, who want the country's current 24-week time limit for terminations reduced.

In both Britain and America, science and the law have been uneasy partners.

In April, Nebraska passed a law banning abortions after 20 weeks on the theory that fetuses would feel pain during the process. Some research has suggested that's possible.

The Supreme Court will likely be asked to rule on the law's constitutionality and any eventual case has the potential to turn the logic of abortion on its head.

Roe v. Wade, the Supreme Court ruling which has made most abortions legal since the 1970s, argues that abortions should not be allowed once a fetus is viable outside the womb.

The Nebraska law argues that the dividing line should not be viability but pain. If the new study is to be believed, there is now fresh ammunition for those in favor of overturning Nebraska's ban.

© 2010 CBS Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved.
29 Comments Add a Comment
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poppy83 says:
I have to agree with Mothersson below. Having just watched silent scream it shows that a fetus does in fact feel or sense things and is aware from around 12 weeks. It showed the fetus actually trying to get away from the suction tube. After watching that, my views on abortion have totally changed now. I think every woman should watch this video and it will probably increase safer sex and reduce the abortion rate tenfold.
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mothersson2002 says:
The Silent Scream film/ documentary shows evidence that fetuses do in fact feel and show a fetus trying to get away fro the abortion instruments.
http://www.silentscream.org/
Note, this film is not for children of any age.
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mrleme says:
Stupid to print the lie and stupid to publish it. So tell me why we prosecute someone who murders a pregnant woman with a 20 week old "fetus" actually baby with a double murder? Tell me why doctors are saving babies (now babies because they are delivered) at 24 to 28 weeks. For all those who believe these lies I would like to see them at the abortion clinic and participate in the abortion of a 28 week old live birth that is brutally murdered then tell me, oh it's just a fetus. Tell me how you feel after your hands a bloodied.
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babooph says:
I guess these idiot anti abortion bunch go to one of their delusional preachers when they get sick-they feel the DR s do not know anything...
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mahdeealoo says:
What is the difference if you wait until the fetus is born and then just take a gun to it's head; a life is a life is a life, any way you dice it.
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TVO1CITW says:
Why do we call something that is inside a body one name (fetus) and we call it a baby when it comes outside the body. What other natural human process do we put two (2) names on.
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kaviz replies:
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We call it food when it's in the stomach, and crap when it comes out.
nojoy01 replies:
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by kaviz June 27, 2010 11:50 AM EDT

We call it food when it's in the stomach, and crap when it comes out.
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OK, you've got me giggling. I think that was supposed to be a rhetorical question. Much better than my gas & burp. (or fart)
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norrismantooth says:
Every new life begins at conception. This is an irrefutable fact of biology. It is true for animals and true for humans. When considered alongside the law of biogenesis ? that every species reproduces after its own kind ? we can draw only one conclusion in regard to abortion. No matter what the circumstances of conception, no matter how far along in the pregnancy, abortion always ends the life of an individual human being. Every honest abortion advocate concedes this simple fact.

Faye Wattleton, the longest reigning president of the largest abortion provider in the world ? Planned Parenthood ? argued as far back as 1997 that everyone already knows that abortion kills. She proclaims the following in an interview with Ms. Magazine:

"I think we have deluded ourselves into believing that people don't know that abortion is killing. So any pretense that abortion is not killing is a signal of our ambivalence, a signal that we cannot say yes, it kills a fetus."

Naomi Wolf, a prominent feminist author and abortion supporter, makes a similar concession when she writes:

"Clinging to a rhetoric about abortion in which there is no life and no death, we entangle our beliefs in a series of self-delusions, fibs and evasions. And we risk becoming precisely what our critics charge us with being: callous, selfish and casually destructive men and women who share a cheapened view of human life...we need to contextualize the fight to defend abortion rights within a moral framework that admits that the death of a fetus is a real death."

David Boonin, in his book, A Defense of Abortion, makes this startling admission:

"In the top drawer of my desk, I keep [a picture of my son]. This picture was taken on September 7, 1993, 24 weeks before he was born. The sonogram image is murky, but it reveals clear enough a small head tilted back slightly, and an arm raised up and bent, with the hand pointing back toward the face and the thumb extended out toward the mouth. There is no doubt in my mind that this picture, too, shows [my son] at a very early stage in his physical development. And there is no question that the position I defend in this book entails that it would have been morally permissible to end his life at this point." (p. xiv)

Don't miss the significance of these acknowledgements. Prominent defenders of abortion rights publicly admit that abortion kills. They are not saying that abortion is morally defensible because it doesn't kill a distinct human entity. They are admitting that abortion does kill a distinct human entity, but argue it is morally defensible anyway. We'll get to their arguments later, but the point here is this: There is simply no debate among honest, informed people that abortion kills distinctly human beings.

The problem is, Roe vs. Wade, the landmark 1973 verdict which legalized abortion in the U.S. is actually built on the claim that there's no way to say for certain whether or not abortion kills because no one can say for certain when life begins. Justice Harry Blackmun, who authored the majority opinion wrote:

"The judiciary, at this point in the development of man's knowledge, is not in a position to... resolve the difficult question of when life begins... since those trained in the respective disciplines of medicine, philosophy, and theology are unable to arrive at any consensus.?

Justice Blackmun's assertion is a ridiculous one, at least as it applies to the field of medicine. In biological terms, life's beginning is a settled fact. Individual human life begins at fertilization, and there are all sorts of authoritative, public resources to prove this.
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retiredgustav replies:
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In 2000,202.2004, the republicans had enough votes to ban abortions. WHY DIDN"T THEY DO SOMETHING. Because all they wanted was a. the vote of the christian right, b. they always want to have this issue to rally the church people against the evil left. Who is more evil the ones who lie year after year, or those who tell you flat out they want to keep abortions safe and legal.
jimatmadison replies:
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Thank you gustav.

Republican politicians don't give a rat's tail about the 'unborn'. All they care is that the sheep keep anteing up in the political plate and voting for the rhetoric, not the results. Abortion rates dropped sharply under pro-choice Clinton and the Democrats, and has continued downward.

Education and availability regarding birth control are built into our societal framework, and the result is fewer abortions. Some GOPers want to hide birth control options from their kids make it less available. Abortions would undoubtedly go up if they were successful.
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scottyusa says:
I would be more interested in when the baby is "self aware" or concious. Chemical reactions to induced pain tells me nothing.
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nomonGnomon replies:
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Imprinting and self awareness occur via interaction with sensory inputs, and interaction requires sentience and the means by which sentience can occur.

Onset of thalamocortical radiations does not occur until after 24 weeks gestation.

Thalamocortical radiations are the fibers between the thalamus and the cerebral cortex. The loops are involved in the production of sleep spindles, absence seizures, and the control of the propagation of sensory information.

Projecting remorse (angst for personal loss) upon an inchoate foetus is a symptom of human egoism.
jimatmadison replies:
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Self aware and conscious are two slightly different terms. 24 weeks gestation appears to be the lower limit of what we would term consciousness. Self awareness gets more into definitions and degrees, and, by most measures, doesn't start to form until after birth.

Scientific American has a nice article available online titled 'When does conciousness arise in human babies?'
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babooph says:
The anti abortion NUTS will surely claim they have far more knowledge than the Royal college of OB & GYN doctors[they went to some deluded moron preaching in church...]
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ArchiteuthisNeb says:
I read the first 10 pages of the study, and it logical travesty. For example, it notes that an 18 week fetus will retreat from a needle, and if pricked, "launches a stress response following needle puncture. This stress response includes the release of hormones and neurotransmitters dependent on activity in areas of the midbrain." Yet the authors speculate that because certain neural circuits important in pain perception are incomplete before 24 weeks, the fetus is cannot really aware of pain, even though they are unable to exclude that possibility. Against the suggestion that "subcortical regions, including the brainstem, and transient brain structures, including the subplate, organise responses to noxious information at each stage of development and provide for a pain experience complete within itself at each stage." the authors claim "There is, however, no evidence or rationale for subcortical and transient brain regions supporting mature function.", conveniently moving the goalposts to the vague criterion of "mature function". If this phrase refers to any response to noxious stimulation exhibited by the mature brain, then the stress response of the 18 week fetus is certainly such a response. If it instead refers to function identical to that of the mature brain, then the goalposts have been moved: The issue is whether the fetus feels pain, not whether it feels exactly the same pain as we do. All that can really be concluded from the report is that there is little reason to doubt that 24-week and older fetuses can feel pain, and that the ability of younger fetuses to do so is less clear. To say that this means that younger fetuses cannot feel pain is like saying that because all horses are animals, a non-horse cannot be an animal. This is absurd.
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ArchiteuthisNeb replies:
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Edit: it *is a* logical travesty
nomonGnomon replies:
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Autonomic responses do not imply that one conscientiously intimates the stimulus.

Most understand that autonomic system responses occur prior to the mind being aware of the stimulus.

An autonomic response is passed to the cortex for analysis and processing via thalamocortical radiations which do not exist until after the 24th week of gestation.
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