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March 13, 2013 1:50 PM

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Upstate New York Shooting Update: Suspected gunman ID'd as Kurt Myers, police say

By: Crimesider Staff
Topics: Daily Blotter

Police say Kurt Myers, 64, of Mohawk, N.Y., is accused of killing four people in shootings at two different locations in upstate New York.

/ WTVH

(CBS/AP) Updated 5:29p.m. - Authorities have corrected the spelling of the suspect's last name to Myers.

Updated 1:57p.m.: Multiple gunshots heard in New York village where police seek gunman in killings of 4.

HERKIMER, N.Y. - A man opened fire at a car wash and a barbershop a mile apart Wednesday morning, killing four people and wounding at least two others, and a 64-year-old suspect is being sought, police said.

Authorities are looking for Kurt Myers, said Joseph Malone, the police chief for Herkimer and Mohawk. Officials say guns and ammunition were found inside his Mohawk apartment after emergency crews were sent to a fire there Wednesday morning.

Soon after, two people were fatally shot and two others wounded at John's Barber Shop, around the corner from the apartment, police said. The second shooting happened about a mile away in Herkimer, where two people were killed at Gaffey's Fast Lube and Car Wash, authorities said.

The two villages are about 65 miles east of Syracuse, on opposite sides of the Mohawk River in a region known as the Mohawk Valley.

Officials said Meyers remained at large Wednesday afternoon.

Late Wednesday morning, police SWAT teams and a helicopter converged on a jewelry store in Herkimer.

The Utica Observer-Dispatch reported that police were focusing on Freddy's Jewelers on Main Street, near the car wash and oil change business. The newspaper reported that officials in Mohawk, however, seemed to think the suspect was still on foot somewhere. Other reports suggested he may have been picked up by a taxi.

Herkimer County Community College and local schools are on lockdown. The college sent an automated cellphone alert around 10:40 a.m., telling students and staff that there was an "active shooter" in the area. The message identified the gunman as a man in his 60s, with a white beard and driving a red Jeep Cherokee. A text alert a few minutes later said the campus was on lockdown. Another alert advised people to remain inside buildings until further notice.

Amanda Viscomi, Herkimer's acting clerk-treasurer for the village of 7,700, told The Associated Press the shooting at Gaffey's happened a few blocks from village hall. She said she was told the shooter was at large and that state police, sheriff's deputies and other police were swarming the area.

"Everybody's on lockdown, all the schools, the college, the village," Viscomi said. "It's very, very scary."

Gov. Andrew Cuomo and the head of the state police are on their way to the area and are expected to brief the media later in the day.

Herkimer is named for the German immigrant family that settled in the western Mohawk Valley in the 1720s. The economically distressed villages are two miles away from Ilion, where a 2-century-old Remington Arms gun plant is a major employer.

More on Crimesider
March 13, 2013 - Upstate New York Shooting Update: Police may have located gunman in attack that left 4 dead, 2 wounded
March 13, 2013 - Upstate New York shooting leaves 4 dead, 2 injured, police tell local media

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by legalbutunjust March 14, 2013 12:40 AM EDT

The federal government has the power in the future to either deter or possibly even invite these kinds of crimes in the future, by passing a clear law that states enumerated and immediate consequences for crime sprees like this one in Herkimer County, NY.

In my humble (or not) opinion, police and investigators should have the authority to ensure that offenders like this- once positively identified and confirmed as located, and as the ONLY one that could have committed the crimes in question - are not going to get out alive once barricaded behind an enclosed structure (and armed or believed to be armed, and with a gun, after victims have been confirmed dead). If there is no reason to believe the one responsible for such crimes is presently in possession of a firearm, than attempts could be made to negotiate a peaceful surrender. How else is the law going to toughen up on gun crimes involving multiple primary scenes and fatal shooting locations, victims?

Basically, when dealing with a mass shooter or spree killer who takes multiple victims with a gun, I don't personally think that that person should be permitted to still have the right to due process and to a fair trial. The constitution's amendments can be changed and form a compromise between staunch second amendment backers and those that strongly support tougher gun ownership laws. At the same time, it can re-define the rights of certain criminals who choose to go out and cause a shooting, en masse, taking multiple victims in public spaces (or maybe even crime scenes that involve multiple gunshot victims in a house and not a business).

I'm sorry to say, but this society, particularly areas that are economically stressed, shouldn't have to pay for the expense of possibly securing the shooter and giving him lengthy, full due process of law - not after killing four innocent people in cold blood. It makes no sense to do otherwise, fiscally or in terms of defending a free country and protecting it from the most dangerous of its inhabitants.

Some offenses are simply inexcusable under any circumstances. This is that kind of offense. This case, from the reports I have seen, doesn't point to a mass murderer per se, but it does show a person who is willing to go out on a killing spree, and ambush others in a lethal manner by use of a firearm. Shotgun, rifle, pistol, it does not and should not matter. In this case, there are two shooting scenes, and it has been reported that four victims died- two from each primary crime scene.

Perhaps with laws like that, and legislation passed to get 'dead serious' with such crimes, and toughen up on the offender, there could be fewer tragic incidents like this in the future. I'm not saying that all shooters, even where persons are killed and perhaps other victims wounded, should be subject to such a mandatory course of response, and I recognize the need for the utmost safety of the responders and officers who are present at the scene.

Let it take all week for the guy to die, or otherwise not be allowed out of the building alive. Rushing to an outcome is no priority, but the certainty of the result ought to be. It would save a LOT of money, and human resources in the future. These people will not have to re-live their experience in a court of law, and re-live the terrible and traumatic events experienced this day and beyond.

You got people like Slow_news who feel fingers should be summarily chopped off for first time gun offenders who commit ANY crime with a firearm.

What about a four-time killer (and arsonist and possibly more fatal victims, as two others were wounded as a result of being shot at)? No hostages, all to himself? Why does that person who committed such atrocious acts deserve the chance to give himself into authorities now, when it is already clear that he has evaded capture and refused surrender when he could have chose otherwise? Shouldn't the punishment for that person, no question as to guilt or whereabouts, be much, much stiffer? I think it ought to be. There's a certain unforgivable cowardice and heartlessness in these kinds of crimes that deserves zero mercy, imo. No question their ought to be, as to the fate of the murderer. This is about getting tough on the senseless gun crime in our country.

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by legalbutunjust March 14, 2013 12:41 AM EDT: BTW, I have never claimed (unlike slow_news) to support the idea of punishing people with a significant disability they'll have to live with for the rest of their life, as like in chopping off fingers. I just don't think these crimes are worthy of the right of the person who committed them to any course of due process, or custodial care under even the harshest circumstances (which is fare more severe a punishment than death itself, really).

The "due process" should be punishment of death, from the scene of the standoff, but it should be done with the utmost care, and should run a course as long as necessary for the safety of all involved. This should become federal law some day. It's not what I would call a "death penalty" either, unless to include life in prison as a basis for excluding capital punishment, or otherwise costing up to many decades of expense to house such evil perpetrators, and under almost equally evil conditions. Let the punishment truly fit the crime, and let it not take long.


by Justbyc March 13, 2013 8:03 PM EDT: Oh look- another shooting hoax!

Only this time not every news channel is playing along. "Existential threats" are one thing, but complete fabrications? Tisk tisk, FBI...; Reply to this comment


by legalbutunjust March 13, 2013 6:31 PM EDT: by stevex47 March 13, 2013 4:28 PM EDT
Dude, more guns are not the answer. Why do you think we have this problem in the first place.

No, you are the problem, not the solution.

------

Agreed.

And another growing problem are scenes like the one playing out in Herkimer at this very hour.

For all I care, this guy (if he is still alive) can be taken out by a SWAT Team or SP sharpshooter- no way he's coming out of this situation alive, one way or the other. As in, to be told, basically, that he is either gonna die inside the building or die right outside the building. Choice "may or may not" be up to him. No other final objective about it, no order to take this guy alive.

As tragic and sudden as these terrible events are for the victims and their loved ones, always remember the immense cost that these kind of suspected killers are to taxpayers. Most often, it is a person behind a GUN- not a knife, not a hammer, not an explosive or other deadly weapon. Little else but a gun of one type or another. Not when there are hostages, or when a killer is holed up alone, and surrounded by authorities. Ask the emergency response personnel, teams of people who deal in these situations, or an official negotiator, they'll tell you. Even in cases where nobody is even yet killed, all data points to instances in where a suspect is in hiding and surrounded (or hostage situation), that there is a gun involved.

Simply put, and as much as I am sure the families and friends of the victims- and really the whole community, would want answers to come about, this guy can be put down right where he is (for all I care).

No negotiations, no food, no offers, no phone BS- no nothing. Just a constant watch, officer safety top of the list as a priority, and the utmost assurance that the only process this POS will face in the near future is a medical one- not a legal one. As in autopsy. Loudspeaker will say so.

What will it take to DETER these kinds of violent, vicious acts in the future? Gun control alone won't be the answer. Nor is anything to do with mental health. There are other things we can do, and negotiating our way into a surrender all to later foot the huge bills that this individual will rack up should, by this point in our history, be considered to be NOT one of them.

We're inching more and more toward the need to resolve these types of situations in such a manner. No pre-trial local incarceration, no "insanity" crap, no trial, no life in prison, none of that. Sad and shocking, but even at 64 years old, this guy's not worth the cost of even attempting to put in prison for the rest of his life, let alone to actually fulfill such an objective.

Now, if he had stopped short of holing up, and barricading himself behind the protection of brick and mortar, and surrendered to police properly, instead of trying to escape apprehension, I could maybe see things differently. Or, if he had had a hostage (it's been so far reported he is thought to be alone and with no other person in immediate vicinity of where he is believed to be).

As of now though, this killer is a fiscal liability to ALL- and until so captured dead or alive, a substantial risk to the safety of many, many others as well. And he'll never be nothin' else.; Reply to this comment


by dj4240 March 13, 2013 6:19 PM EDT: If this wacko used a rifle I bet he made sure that there were only 7 rounds in his magazine...after all he wouldn't want to break the law. And if he used a shotgun at least the citizens could feel more secure that he didn't use a one of those semi automatic rifles. All of this proves how mindless and useless Cuomo's gun controls laws are, and these laws only infringe on the rights of law abiding citizens. These laws were made behind closed doors because New York liberal politicians were binging on liberal ideology...how pathetic.; Reply to this comment


by dustin96v March 13, 2013 3:30 PM EDT: The Police offer a substantial cash reward for information that leads to capture of this desperate Felon.; Reply to this comment

by Hermanoscott March 13, 2013 2:54 PM EDT

Had these people been carrying concealed weapons this would have been over, and less lives lost to this fool.

Reply to this comment


by dagrandma March 13, 2013 3:18 PM EDT: How could you possibly know this?


by ReckonedTruth March 13, 2013 3:19 PM EDT: do you know if he walk up to these victim and just right out shot them, or just MMAAAYYYBBBBE he ambushed them or demonstrated as a sniper..

so..SINCE you and I don't know how they were murdered outside of a gun shot.. therefore not unless you have insight as to why if the victims had a weapon as result, would still be alive.. otherwise what you are saying is nosensical..


by turveydrop March 13, 2013 3:32 PM EDT: Facts prove you wrong.

People were carrying concealed weapons in Arizona during the mass shooting when Gabriel Giffords was shot. None of them fired on the shooter. People were carrying concealed weapons in Aurora, Colorado, during the mass shooting during a movie premiere. None of them fired on the shooter. More than half the bystanders were armed during the Fort Hood mass shooting. None of them fired on the shooter.


by redmerlot March 13, 2013 3:41 PM EDT: Or maybe he shot them from a distance and they never saw it coming. Or maybe when the shooter saw somebody pulling a gun, he would have panicked and shot even more people, if the "defender" didn't happen to get him right away. Everybody imagines that if they are "packin'", they will be able to react with the precision and authority of the Special Forces. Ha! Until you look somebody in the eye and pull that trigger, while he's shooting at you, you have no idea what it takes to defend yourself with a gun.


by Bendech March 13, 2013 4:17 PM EDT: Yeah. President Reagan and President Kennedy were probably thinking the same thing moments BEFORE they were shot. "Gee. I've got all these heavily armed Secret service agents and police with weapons surrounding me. How could a gunman possible get to ME before THEY get to him?"

Of course we all know that all that firepower didn't deter Hinckley from shooting the President, his press secretary , an armed policeman and an armed secret service agent. In fact Hinkley was able to empty his gun of 6 bullets in 1.7 seconds...so fast that none of the secret service agents had a chance to even reach for their ready weapons. Their guns proved USELESS.

Same with President Kennedy. He was shot with a rifle with a scope from such a distance that the killer(s) was able to walk away after killing the President and wounding the Governmor of Texas. In fact, to this day, no one knows how many gunmen there actually were.

Yes. I like hearing gun nuts claim that "If only the people were armed this never would have happened." If that were true KENNEDY would be alive and Hinckley would be dead.


by stevex47 March 13, 2013 4:28 PM EDT: Dude, more guns are not the answer. Why do you think we have this problem in the first place.

No, you are the problem, not the solution.


by nursedeb49 March 13, 2013 5:45 PM EDT: you're an idiot, if someone suddenly suprises you and shoots, you do not get the chance to unconceal your weapon, total NRA talking out the rear BS, if having a weapon were a guarantee not to be shot, why are police officers shot??? you gun idiots have no grasp of reality. The only way carrying works if if you are aimed, locked and loaded at everyone who passes you.


by Middle_American_Man March 13, 2013 8:30 PM EDT: Yeah, where were all your John Wayne wannabe concealed carriers? This wasn't a gun free zone (like anyone obeys those) and yet your cowboys were nowhere to be seen, as usual.

by Dr_Hausen March 13, 2013 2:49 PM EDT

Great reporting, CBS. So glad you were able to throw this unimportant, but inflammatory last line: "... villages are two miles away from Ilion, where a 2-century-old Remington Arms gun plant is a major employer."

Reply to this comment


by Offblackie March 13, 2013 3:23 PM EDT: That's what the drive by media does, inflame.


by redmerlot March 13, 2013 3:45 PM EDT: I agree with you. That last line was total crap. They added it just to spread their anti-gun agenda. How about, "Villages are two miles away from Ilion, which has had zero murders for the past 11 years (as far back as the city-data dott comm data goes)."


by CuriousServant March 13, 2013 4:04 PM EDT: You don't believe economics has anything to do with manufacture?


by Middle_American_Man March 13, 2013 8:33 PM EDT: That's irony, not inflammation. It's an interesting factoid to flesh out a story where there's not a lot of detail known, not a conspiracy to harm the gun fiends.


by rwsmith29456 March 13, 2013 11:52 PM EDT: I vote crap. But what do you expect from news people??

by aintfakin March 13, 2013 2:35 PM EDT

huh?
no good guys with a gun around to stop him?
That element of surprise is a real B itch isnt it?
the 2nd amendment remedy is alive and well

Reply to this comment


by Dr_Hausen March 13, 2013 2:56 PM EDT: The price of freedom, pal. It's the price of freedom.


by bobaloobob March 13, 2013 3:20 PM EDT: @ Dr. Hausen:
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.

by 83targa March 13, 2013 2:34 PM EDT

sure bet..
Bloomberg's doing the smurf dance again..
yapping..oh please let it be an AR..
please...

Reply to this comment


by dagrandma March 13, 2013 3:20 PM EDT: And in the meantime, the NRA is doing the very same dance.


by dagrandma March 13, 2013 6:17 PM EDT: Sure bet the NRA and the gun manufacturers are doing the smurf dance because they like shootings -- sales always skyrocket.