Romney encounters pushback on education ideas at urban charter school

Republican presidential candidate, former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, center, is joined by the Universal Bluford Charter School founder Kenneth Gamble, left, and Evie Mcniff, during a round table discussion at the school, Thursday, May 24, 2012, in Philadelphia.

/ AP Photo/Mary Altaffer

Updated 7:23 p.m. ET

PHILADELPHIA -- Mitt Romney visited a charter school in a struggling African-American neighborhood here on Thursday and ran into some pushback from educators and protesters who took issue with his ideas on class size and the role of families in successful school systems.

The presumptive Republican presidential nominee's visit to the Universal Bluford Charter School, which has shown signs of success, came a day after he proposed that poor and disabled students should be allowed to attend the school of their choice with federal dollars following them to that school.

At a roundtable with 11 teachers and administrators, Romney said the achievement gap between minority and non-minority students is "the civil rights issue of our time," and that it was roughly cut in half in Massachusetts while he was governor. He said his tenure as governor had shown him three key features to successful school systems: great teachers, two supportive parents, and sound leadership at the schools.

Romney acknowledged that the two-parent situation wasn't an option for all children. "For a single mom living in a shelter with a couple of kids - those kids are at an enormous disadvantage - there's no question about that," Romney said. But he argued that teaching about the advantages of raising children in a two-parent environment would help the chances of the next generation.

"If we're thinking about the kids of tomorrow," he said, "trying to help move people to understand, you know, getting married and having families where there's a mom and a dad together has a big impact. That's, in my view, that's critical down the road for those that are already in a setting where they don't have two parents."

A couple of roundtable participants were skeptical that the problem of single-parent households could be changed through teaching at schools. "We'll never get to that second point you described about having a two-parent situation," said Abdur-Rahim Islam, head of a consulting company that is helping improve Philadelphia schools.

The educators also challenged Romney's contention that smaller class sizes don't appear to be key to improving student performance. He told the group about gathering information from 351 cities and towns in Massachusetts when he was governor to compare class size to student performance. An analysis found no relationship between smaller class sizes and better performance. "As a matter of fact, the district with the smallest classrooms - Cambridge - had students performing in the bottom 10 percent. So just getting smaller classrooms didn't seem to be the key," Romney said.

But Stephen Morris, a teacher at Universal Bluford, said that his experiences had proven the opposite. "I can't think of any teacher in the whole time I have been teaching, 13 years, who would say that more students [in the classroom] would benefit," Morris told Romney. "And I can't think of a parent that would say I would like my teacher to be in a room with a lot of kids and only one teacher. So I'm wondering where this research comes from."

Technology teacher Ronald Benner agreed. "You can give more personalized attention to each student if you have a smaller class size," he said.

Romney countered with another study done by the consulting firm McKinsey & Co. that found classroom size was not driving the success of schools around the world. He said it concluded the keys were "very involved" parents, excellent teachers, and good administrators.

Still not convinced, David Hardy, the CEO at a nearby charter school, brought up what he called "a definitive study about class size" by the University of Tennessee. "And what they said was that in first through third grade, if the class size is under 18, those kids stay ahead of everybody else all the way through school," he said.

Outside the school where Romney's campaign bus was parked, Philadelphia Mayor Michael Nutter and District Attorney Seth Williams held a press conference in front of about 50 sign-waving Obama supporters organized by the Obama campaign. Nutter was dismissive of Romney's record as governor, pointing to teacher layoffs and education budget cuts during his tenure. "Romney's Massachusetts record is not a model for a nation," Nutter said. "We can't afford wrong-way Romney."

Williams said he had not invited Romney to the neighborhood. "I am glad the Republican candidate has come to West Philadelphia," Williams said, "but instead of just talking at the school and getting back on his huge bus, he should come out, he should walk 60th Street" to understand "real Americans" who live in urban America.

An earlier version of this story misattributed remarks by Stephen Morris and David Hardy.

[spiceman22]

Single parent families are at a disadvantage for the lack of a home environment that is stable and secure, though it lends to the exploitation of those who exploit this lack, a good home affords.

True family support exists in a two parent home where they participate in the education of their children. I have 7 brothers and 6 sisters, and none of us lacked the encouragement to make the best use of our talents to serve and to bless, to leave a legacy of love and devotion; a love and devotion for all with whom we might come in contact with. You cannot get that encouragement in any educational institution without the family being involved.

Size does make a difference. The bigger the family the better it is. The family is the most important connection to a person's educational environment.

[spiceman22]

I Believe it was Mark Twain that sad, "There are lies, there damned lies, then there are statistics."

Romney is 99% correct in his assessment, to the best environments that promote education. A positive all around environment involving, both parents, teachers and mentors is the best solution. But that is not the politicians are aiming for. they want to isolate a students that will become their pawns. That is the reason they criticize Romney.

Romney wants to see the students succeed in their own right, for the love and good of society not the politicians. That is why Mitt Romney will be a great President.

[spiceman22]

I Believe it was Mark Twain that sad, "There are lies, there damned lies, then there are statistics."

Romney is 99% correct in his assessment, ot the best environments that promote education. A positive all around environment involving, both parents, teachers and mentors is the best solution. But that is not the politicians or aiming for. the want to isolate a student that will become their pawns. That is the reason they criticize Romney.

[davcor2]

Oh Mitt you have such a propensity for pulling statistics clean out of the air. Where does he come up with this stuff. "Larger classes don't make a difference in learning" ? Really Mitt ? It makes us wonder if the back of your head is a solar panel powering a dumb ass.

[cheersandgains]

Mitt Romney as President would be the worst thing that could happen to this country. OK. A Sarah Palin President of the USA would be worse. Like that could happen!

Have you read any comment by a Tea Party idiot or a birthing dunce which has not had any truth in it? Sure.

All these people do is misrepresent the truth by distorting the facts to try to win their point. The point is there is nothing going on upstairs at the GOP. Nothing going on in the GOP history or GOP Presidential pick. Nothing of substance from these ignorant, diluted white trash Republicans.

I used to be a Republican. Then my friends had me look at the truth. If you are a Republican the last thing you really want to learn is the truth. Romney really suxs big time. The GOP suxs all the time. All the failed Congress people and all the failed GOP Presidents and all the failed agendas and foreign policies.

They have to buy elections don't they. I wonder why?

[marychgo]

For all those inclined to accept the "class size doesn't matter" meme, I'd suggest you talk to some actual teachers. I taught in the public schools for a couple of years decades ago, and have taught adults since the late '70s, and I can assure you that class size DOES matter...and not because of the number of papers to be graded! With a smaller class, the teacher gets to know the students better, can assess their progress and jump on problems more quickly, and can tailor material to fit the students' needs. You simply can't do that if you have 25, 30, or 35 students in a grade school class.

I'm a leading-edge boomer and had as many as 50 or 60 students in some of my parochial grade school classes -- and I got a very good education. But that was a VERY deferential culture, and anyone who stepped out of line got corporal punishment at school and then more corporal punishment at home. It's not 1956 anymore. Corporal punishment is a crime. More significantly, we no longer define success in child-rearing as "seen, but not heard." We WANT our kids to be alert and creative and individual. And there's no way one teacher can help 50 kids actualize themselves in a single classroom!

[Scimajor]

We all know his views on education.

1. The more money your parents have the better educated you will be. If your parents are poor then tough luck for you kid. Generations of your family will be doomed to flipping burgers if Romney. gets his way.

2. Make education better by cutting funding. (one sentence is plenty here).

It all comes down to Romney towing the party line of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer.

[sjc_1]

Vouchers just undermine education, cripple it and then kill it off is the GOP motto. Once they destroy public schools, only the wealthy will be able to afford education. We will be turned into Mexico where there is NO mandatory K12 education then become lawn mowers for the wealthy.

[ewcollins]

Small class size does help disadvantaged students in the early grades. On the other hand, it makes little difference in the higher grades.

Small class size does appeal to realtors (easier to sell a house in these school districts) and to teachers (less papers to grade).

Even when schools have smaller classes, the teachers often teach the same way that they always have, so there is no real benefit for the students.

[occupy_cbs]

Your simplistic views are obviously only partisan, and only to support the moronic ideology of willard romney, since small class size leads to much better education, but obviously lowers the profits in private schools.

BTW, how much does the romney family have invested in this venture?

[Ay2TheZee]

ewcollins, I think your comment makes a lot of sense. Unfortunately, occupy_cbs chose to write it off as nonsense, without actually considering it. For some reason people on here want to believe that class size IS the biggest factor in quality education, regardless of the serious doubt that has been cast on that idea by actual studies. Occupy, I don't care what you WANT to believe, I only care what the data says. Regardless of conventional wisdom, there is actually a lot of data to support the idea that class size is not a major factor. Mind you, no one is talking about having class sizes of 40 or 50 people, but the difference between 20 and 35 has has been shown to make little difference. Look up the many studies done on this matter. They do not all come to the same conclusion, but there is certainly enough data ti cast doubt on the idea of class size as the primary factor in education quality.

[gep1955]

where is your article on the pushback obama is getting on spending, raising taxes on small business owners, health care we dont want, punitive environmental regulation, weak foriegn policy, telling voters to aspire to middle class status, still blaming bush, anticapitalism, socialism, supporting occupy wall street thugs and ignoring the constitution?

[occupy_cbs]

Don't you ever get tired of spewing the same republican talking points on a daily basis?


WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) -- Of all the falsehoods told about President Barack Obama, the biggest whopper is the one about his reckless spending spree.

http://articles.marketwatch.com/2012-05-22/commentary/31802270_1_spending-federal-budget-drunken-sailor

[nygurl1]

Who said we don't want the healthcare? I can't think of anything more important than healthcare for EVERYONE! Selfish, lying rep idiot!