As Ariz. votes, is "self-deportation" more than a slogan?

AP Photo/Gerald Herbert

As Republican voters in Arizona head to the polls today to decide who should be the party's nominee for president, candidates have been talking tough on immigration.

Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney said he thinks the Grand Canyon state's controversial immigration law should be something for the rest of the country to embrace.

"I think you see a model in Arizona," Romney said at the CNN sponsored debate last week in Mesa, Arizona, near Phoenix.

Arizona in 2010 passed a law giving police broad new powers to crack down on illegal immigrants, though the more controversial aspects of the law have been held up by court challenges. Supporters of the law say that by making life difficult for illegal immigrants who have already entered the country, they will choose to leave rather than to stay amid constant fear of getting caught.

The concept is known as "self-deportation," though deportation by definition is involuntary. Advocates of the idea call it "attrition through enforcement."

Romney likes the idea and said so in an earlier debate.

"We're not going to round people up," Romney said in late January. "The answer is self-deportation."

For Romney, it is unrealistic to deport millions of undocumented immigrants, but for them to leave on their own is more likely.

Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich attacked Romney over the idea that "grandmothers" would self-deport.

One of the leading men behind Romney's plan of attrition through enforcement is Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach. The former law professor who served in the Bush administration at the Justice Department under John Ashcroft is one of the key authors of the Arizona law and a similar measure in Alabama.

Kobach, who has endorsed Romney and serves as an informal adviser to the candidate, said "the idea is not rocket science."

"If you enforce the law more forcefully," Kobach told Hotsheet, "illegal aliens make the rational decision to return to their home country."

Kobach wants the U.S. to take the same approach as Arizona and Alabama.

"Arizona has become a model at what the U.S. should be doing at the federal level," Kobach said in a telephone interview, and he thinks Romney is the man to do it.

But not everyone agrees.

"There are consequences of intimidating people," said Muzaffar Chishti, director of the Migration Policy Institute at the New York University Law School. He said those consequences include crimes going unreported and children being pulled from school, leaving groups of people uneducated.

Kobach dismissed the culture of fear.

"They fear getting caught if they break the law, but that's not a culture of fear, that's the law," he said. Kobach added that it is illegal immigration that scares him: "There's nothing scary about the rule of law. A really scary situation is an outbreak of lawlessness."

At a debate in Florida, Romney offered some details behind self-deportation. He said a national E-Verify workplace authorization system is necessary to ensure that only legal residents can obtain jobs.

"People decide they can do better by going home because they can't find work here because they don't have legal documentation to allow them to work here," Romney said in January.

Kobach told Hotsheet that E-Verify is a major component, but just one of many parts. He called for federal raids of work sites, and stronger local and federal law enforcement cooperation, which would enable local police to ask immigration status.

But do undocumented immigrants actually leave? Kobach said they do.

He pointed to Alabama. He said the unemployment rate dropped 2.1 percent since that state passed its tough immigration law in October 2011, compared to a .5 percentage reduction in the national unemployment. He said immigrants self-deported -- probably to a neighboring state -- leaving jobs for Americans.

But media reports detail a shortage of workers for factories and farms and, recently, that immigrants have been trickling back into the state.

Skeptics say there is no proof that self-deportation occurs.

"We have seen no evidence of attrition through enforcement," Chisti said.

Tracking the number of undocumented immigrants is difficult. Pew Hispanic Center conducted a random sample and found that entire undocumented population in the U.S. has decreased from its peak of 12.5 million in 2007 to 11.2 million to 2010, probably due to the lagging economy. The study also found that four states saw a significant decrease in its undocumented population, and although Arizona did see a decline, it was not as much as New York, Florida, Virginia and Colorado.

Even Kobach admitted that it's a hard phenomenon to document.

"We're dealing with anecdotal evidence. It's hard to tell for both sides of the coin," he said.

Chisti boiled self-deportation down to campaign-season rhetoric and dismissed that it is a real solution. "It makes politicians feel good about themselves; it's a good sound bite and it intimidates people," Chisti told Hotsheet.

Steve Camarota, director of research at the Center for Immigration Studies, which is promoting self-deportation, said the goal is not to see a 100 percent decrease in unauthorized immigration, but to reduce the number of undocumented immigrants over time, and that it will take some time.

"I think the goal would be to be to turn it from a national crisis to a national nuisance," Camarota said.

But Chisti said that even with record numbers of deportations under President Obama, "a very small number of people leave. So people take chances."

[nancy_naive]

In Romney's case, it's "self-teleportation". He's on the mental short bus to Kolob.

[hacimo]

Its important to note that although Romney advocates "self deportation" strategy as a method which will induce most illegals to leave, he is in no way saying that we should slack off in therms of regular deportation. Those "die hard" illegals who refuse to get the message and leave of there own accord will still be subject to deportation just as they are now. There will not be any "mass arrests" and draconian workplace raids but, if a policeman stops someone for a traffic violation, and if that person does not have a valid license then their identity will be checked, and if they are not legal they will be arrested and deported just as they would be under current law. The same would happen if a person was arrested for any other reason.

[nottellin1]

I guess you haven't heard about how Los Angeles Sheriff, Charlie Beck, wants to eliminate the 30 day impound period when someone is caught drving without a license.

When it comes to illegal aliens, IAI's, it seems that if too many break a law, the US changes the law, rather than enforce it. I guess that['s OK because our own Prez says he uses laws as guidelines. I think we all should do just that.

[Smokey75]

by nfission February 28, 2012 2:14 PM EST
Republicans have lost the Latino vote, blacks were never voting for them, and most whites who aren't steeped in religious fanaticism aren't voting for these buffoons either. So I guess the only people voting GOP are white supremacists, the 1%, and the religious right. Looks like you guys lose again.
====================================================================================================================================

WOW there must be a lot of religious fenatics and 1%ers if you look at the results of the 2010 elections.

I do remmebr the democrats taking a "Shelacking"!

[erpicferl]

if all illegals actually self deported all the produce aisles in ritzy scottsdale would be empty because nobody would be picking the fruits and vegetables. then ken and barbie would throw a fit and beg pedro to come back.

[hacimo]

So you think that Americans are too fat and lazy to pick vegetables? It sounds like you just sit behind a desk all day and never did an honest days work. I wonder how you would feel about illegals if they was coming over to take YOUR job and under cut YOUR wages. I notice how all the folks who love illegals just know how to sit on their behinds. I have news for you however. More then half of american workers have never gone to college. They do manual work and because of the outsourcing of factories and the illegals taking service jobs they have no had a raise above inflation since 1970. Meanwhile everyone else is getting rich. That just is not right and its time the working man got an even break.

[14FREEK]

If the illegals return on their own then they would avoid the penalty of being here illegally and not being able to ever return. if they are given a deadline then after that deadline then they would be DNA registered as in the country illegally and never permitted to enter leally. then if found here after that then they should be incarcerated.

[tsigili]

No.....it is an obvious symbol of the fact Romney has no intention of actually doing ANYTHING about illegal immigration, whatsoever.

[hacimo]

You are a dolt. Self deportation is simply the application of market d=forces to solve a roblem. The illegals come here to make money. Remove the profit motive, make it impossible for them to get work and make it expensive and troublesome to stay. When the profit motive is gone and they will leave for the same reason they came. If you don't beleive that will work then you know nothing of human nature. So maybe you should watch as see what happens when it is tried. If you want the illegals gone then what have you got to lose? Obviously whatever Obama is doing is not working and amnesty will only make things worse.

[Daves1221]

States with very large populations of illegal aliens, beginning with the election in Michigan and Arizona should be very aware of non-citizens voting. The Democrats and its Liberal progressive core have been shown in the daily news reports, which many in their party have strayed from election laws and remained indifferent to illegal acts. Whether it's in gubernatorial, state or local election cycle and leading up to the 2012 presidential election, be wise to how easy it is to cheat the system, if no form of picture ID is required. The Absentee Ballot can easily be altered and non voters have found the way. With similar organizations to ACORN, condemned for its canvassers signing up anybody with a pulse, this method netted hundreds of thousands of illegal voters in eleven states. without any form of official ID non citizens have located the loophole, and after voting themselves turn over their card to a cousin, sister or any relative with the same address, can impersonate the real citizen. What even is far worse is that canvassers, who sign up people, do not even tell the people in many cases, they are not eligible to vote. Therefore non voters who are in the country legally, but then some non- citizens are misled by people collecting signatures?

As the presidential race is most probably the most important race in decades, the consequences are so high, specifically in close races. Those GOP (TEA PARTY) candidates Matt Romney, Rick Santorum, Ron Paul and Newt Gingrich for president need to enlighten with statements, about the very urgent need for proof of citizenship, when voting. You may have already seen the chaos with nationwide immeasurable ID thefts, which cause aggressive action by financial institutions and sometimes years of anguish by victims. Yet the do nothings in Washington do nothing to end this epidemic. Until discovered later in life, children of citizens find they now have a complex predicament in sorting out a credit mess as their Social security number was stolen. Yet Washington does nothing. It is way past time that like many European countries a national picture ID was issued to every citizen, with biometric information. But until an elitist Republican or Democratic leaders has their credit compromised, the theft will continue and no laws to stop non-citizens from voting will be passed?

[Daves1221]

All 50 States have been trying desperately to save their legal population into forfeiting dollars for illegal alien welfare, but they have received an extreme bombardment for decades, instigated by Liberal media, religion, unions, special interests and radical minority groups, that insist we pay for their settling here. This will not occur under TEA PARTY legislation and in fact they will pass bills, as the mandatory E-Verify "THE LEGAL WORKFORCE ACT" (H.R.2885) Placing federal enforcement obstacles to halt illegal workers being hired, the "BIRTHRIGHT CITIZENSHIP ACT" (H.R.140) to right a wrong by adjustment to our law, that says no child gains instant citizenship if neither parent is a U.S. citizen and owes allegiance to a foreign country. Soon as (H.R.2885) is enacted self-deportation or ATTRITION THROUGH ENFORCEMENT will commence as with jobs unavailable, they will leave. "Foothold Babies' which goes by another name is the most expensive outlay of dollars, cemented by our judicial system that is crippling this homeland's economy.

This has been a huge mockery of our laws, as 300 thousand females annually will purposely cross our border or enter as a tourist from another country, to have her unborn here free of charge and then apply for a green card. Then If you are not versed in the "The Legal Workforce Act" which directly affects millions of citizens-residents jobs or the "Birthright Citizenship Act" that will finally contain billions of dollars of your tax-money and not spread to nationals. Google NUMBERSUSA for much in depth portrayal of this issue and then report this fiasco to your important federal or state lawmaker and demand they pass these laws. IN COMING ELECTIONS DETERMINE WHICH DEMENTED POLITICAL ARROGANT PERSONA'S SHOULD BE DISCARDED BEFORE THEY GIVE YOUR COUNTRY AWAY. These laws above-mentioned are not state laws, but to be introduced into Congress if voters demand it from their representatives; it might just save their jobs?

The Liberal Vendetta has surpassed the rationality of blaming the Constitutionalists. Far from it; we need engineers, scientists and highly skilled professional in computer technology. What is not wanted is unfettered poverty that seems we are getting more of every day? The top classes of potential immigrants already have been sponsored by companies waiting for them, and its ascertained they are unlikely to be paying a visit to the welfare offices? Guest Workers for the farming industry should be well regulated and only on a temporary basis, with no path to citizenship. Anybody caught illegally in this nation, must face a felony charge. Annually the cost for this paramount immigration issue has climbed to a hundred billion and still rising.

If you really want the facts about the illegal alien incursion and many other problem that cause Americans unnecessary pain and suffering, then you need to view the uncensored pages, not suppressed by the Leftist media at (Google) AMERICAN PATROL. For information about the dishonesty in Washington and state congressional seats of power, check the web pages of the (Google) JUDICIAL WATCH.

[PourpaixPourpaix]

Why is it that people cut off their noses to spite their face? OK, you hate Republicans; can't say I blame you. But sometimes they have good ideas that might help solve a problem. I fail to see the fault in a scheme that makes it more difficult for an illegal alien to find or hold a job. I think it's silly to think it will solve the whole problem. Grandma living with her US citizen son probably won't self-deport. However, it might solve part of the problem. Maybe many will go home; maybe many won't bother to come. That's progress. It's better than continuing a system that allows illegals to easily find a life here.

[hacimo]

The self deportation strategy will work to remove the profit motive from illegal immigration. Someone who is here to be with family and is not interested in money should not be bothered. On the other hand those "grandma's" are not the ones who do any harm to the economy so who cares.

[nfission]

Republicans have lost the Latino vote, blacks were never voting for them, and most whites who aren't steeped in religious fanaticism aren't voting for these buffoons either. So I guess the only people voting GOP are white supremacists, the 1%, and the religious right. Looks like you guys lose again.

[hacimo]

Take you damned Latino traitor vote and shove it. If you don't care about the american working man and the unemployed then what do the democrats stand for anymore? It's a shame that republicans are the only ones willing to stand up for whats right.

[nfission]

hacimo: Thanks for re-enforcing my point... exponentially.