October 12, 2009 5:30 PM

Immigration Debate Boils Over to Census

By
Stephanie Condon
Topics
Domestic Issues
(AP)
President Obama has yet to take on immigration reform, but the status of undocumented immigrants in the United States will become a hot topic again soon enough as a result of the 2010 census count.

Some Latino groups angered by the president's lack of action on immigration reform are calling for a boycott of the census to prove the Hispanic community's growing political leverage. Other organizations are calling for just the opposite, mobilizing to ensure that the growing minority group is accurately counted.

Meanwhile, two Republican senators will try this week to add questions regarding citizenship and immigration status to the census. Senators David Vitter (R-La.) and Robert Bennett (R-Utah) recently introduced an amendment to an appropriations bill that would bar funding for the U.S. Census Bureau unless it adds the questions to the nation's survey of the U.S. population, which takes place every ten years.

The census will have an enormous impact on communities, influencing the number of congressional representatives they get and the amount of federal dollars they receive for public works projects like roads and schools. The challenge of counting all of the nation's residents will be even more difficult next year, now that cities are dealing with depleted budgets and will have to seek out citizens who have become homeless or displaced by their own financial hardship.

The census counts everyone who lives in the country, legally or otherwise. For the first time, bilingual English-Spanish census questionnaires will be sent to about 13 million households next year.

Given that communities are granted power and money based on their population, one Latino leader is arguing that local governments should not receive those benefits unless leaders intend to represent all of their residents, including illegal immigrants.

Rev. Miguel Rivera, president of the National Coalition of Latino Clergy and Christian Leaders, wants illegal immigrants to boycott the census, the Washington Times reports.

"The truth is that counting undocumented immigrants creates what we call ghost electoral districts, and that is completely immoral," he told the newspaper.

The San Francisco-based Latin American Alliance for Immigrant Rights is also calling for a boycott of the census unless Congress acts to legalize undocumented immigrants before the census starts in April, according to the Oakland Tribune.

"We have to send a clear message that we don't want to be used," said Miguel Robles, the group's director. "If these people decide not to be counted, the cities and counties will lose a lot of money."

This position aligns these immigrant rights groups with conservatives they are typically at odds with on the issue of immigration reform.

"We shouldn't let these states be rewarded for skirting our federal laws and this amendment would help stop this practice," Vitter reportedly said when introducing his amendment. "It obviously won't help us identify all illegal aliens, but it's a step in the right direction. Illegal aliens should not be included for the purposes of determining representation in Congress, and that's the bottom line here."

Detractors of the amendment argue it would delay the census; force the government to spend more money for additional testing, printing and training; and make it less accurate.

"In a country of 308 million people, getting a complete headcount is a gargantuan undertaking even when the number of questions (now ten) is small," write Audrey Singer and Andrew Reamer, two fellows with the Metropolitan Policy Program. "Add a bitter politicized environment around immigration and it's understandable why many immigrants, even those legally present, may not want to stand up to be counted."

Other Latino and immigrant-rights groups strongly disagree with the boycott idea. In fact, a coalition of Latino groups backed by the Census Bureau are running a campaign aimed at achieving a more accurate count of Latinos in the country, the Wall Street Journal reported.

Called "Ya Es Hora. Hagase Contar!" (It's Time, Make Yourself Count!), the campaign is being driven by unions, grassroots organizations and Spanish-language media.

"This is the most important census for the Latino community because it's the first census in which Latinos make up the nation's second-largest population group," Arturo Vargas, executive director of the National Association of Latino Elected and Appointed Officials (NALEO), told the Washington Times.

Add a Comment See all 21 Comments
by human_being_usa October 13, 2009 2:59 PM EDT
NY Times/CBS Poll dated April 22-26, 2009; 65% would like to see undocumented immigrants legalized.

http://documents.nytimes.com/new-york-times-cbs-news-poll-obama-s-100th-day-in-office/page/16#p=16

Pew Research Center Poll: 63% of Americans Favor Path to Legalization for Undocumented.

http://immigration.change.org/blog/view/pew_poll_63_of_americans_favor_path_to_citizenship_for_undocumented

An April 30, 2009 ABC News/Washington Post poll finds 61% of Americans support Path to Legalization for Undocumented

http://abcnews.go.com/images/PollingUnit/1089a6HotButtonIssues.pdf
Reply to this comment
by human_being_usa October 13, 2009 2:58 PM EDT
Why has crime been declining even as immigration has been rising?

http://www.wjh.harvard.edu/soc/faculty/sampson/articles/2006_NYT_OpenDoors.pdf

The graph above cuts off at 2006, so here is the FBI data for US murders in 2007 and 2008;

FBI Data on US Murders 2007;

Total -2.7

Northeast -8.6

Midwest -3.8

South +2.9

West -6.7

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/2007prelim/table2.htm

FBI Data on US Murders 2008;

Total -4.4

Northeast -1.2

Midwest -5.2

South -5.2

West -4.2

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/2008prelim/table_2.html

Crime falls in Los Angeles for 6th consecutive year. Crime in Los Angles was lower in 2008 than the 1960s.

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jan/01/local/me-socalcrime1

Crime decreases in most L.A. Sheriff's Department areas

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-sheriff-crime22-2009sep22,0,7821877.story

New York City crime falls for 18th consecutive year. New York City had more murders in 1961 than 2008.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=a6LIJt1oDrxY&refer=us
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by centermike October 14, 2009 11:02 AM EDT
Good point. Study after study confirms that illegal immigrants are less likely to commit crimes while in the United States than native-borns. In short, it appears that they will go beneath the radar screen as much as possible. A sociologist friend of mine, at a major university, did not believe this and scoured the research to disprove it. After several months he conceded -- illegal immigrants are less likely to commit crimes.
by human_being_usa October 13, 2009 2:53 PM EDT
"While an illegal alien is subject to deportation, that person's ongoing presence in the United States in and of itself is not a crime, unless that person had been previously deported and regained illegal entry into this country."

http://www.kscourts.org/Cases-and-Opinions/opinions/ctapp/2007/20070817/96613.htm

Former US Attorney for the southern district of New York, Rudy Giuliani;

"In fact, when you throw an immigrant out of the country, it's not a criminal proceeding. It's a civil proceeding."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDo-ZVK4dc0&eurl

U.S. Attorney Christopher Christie Serving the District of New Jersey;

"Being in this country without proper documentation is not a crime," Christie told more than 60 residents and town officials. "The whole phrase of 'illegal immigrant' connotes that the person, by just being here, is committing a crime."

Being undocumented may be a civil wrong, but it's not a criminal act, Christie said.

"Don't let people make you believe that that's a crime that the U.S. Attorney's Office should be doing something about," he added of entering the country illegally. "It is not."

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2008/04/immigrants_and_their_advocates.html

On Sunday, April 19, 2009, Department of Homeland Security (DHS) Secretary JANET NAPOLITANO went on CNN?s ?State of the Union? and proclaimed that crossing the border is not a crime.

"crossing the border is not a crime"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTqim4Se70k
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by human_being_usa October 13, 2009 2:48 PM EDT
Comptroller for the State of Texas;

"The absence of the estimated 1.4 million undocumented immigrants in Texas in fiscal 2005 would have been a loss to our gross state product of $17.7 billion. Undocumented immigrants produced $1.58 billion in state revenues, which exceeded the $1.16 billion in state services they received."

http://www.cpa.state.tx.us/specialrpt/undocumented/undocumented.pdf

Francine J. Lipman
Professor of Law
Courses Taught: Federal Income Taxation and Corporate Tax
http://www.chapman.edu/law/faculty/lipman.asp

Taxing Undocumented Immigrants: Separate, Unequal and Without Representation

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=881584

The Undocumented Immigrant Tax

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1292960&rec=1&srcabs=881584
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by PyRO_sTEVO October 13, 2009 8:06 AM EDT
Our Government, past & present, Republican & Democrat, have allowed the invasion of 20 to 30 million criminals and uneducated peons which is the largest invasion of any Nation, at any time, by any means & in direct violation of Article IV, Section IV of our Constitution.

This refusal to abide by our Constitution or enforce our Immigration Laws should be classified as Treason of the most foul kind, & as grounds for impeachment & trials for Treason!

Not only have they allowed the invasion, they force American tax payers to pay Billions on Billions of dollars to provide Welfare, Prison cells, Educate the invaders numerous children, and free medical care, at the same time the invading horde break numerous laws and massive document fraud, & are destroying our schools, hospitals, communities, culture and standard of living while Robbing, Raping, Killing & Assaulting American Citizens WAKE UP PEOPLE!
Reply to this comment
by centermike October 14, 2009 9:53 AM EDT
The Guarantee Clause to which you refer relates to insurrections and was drafted with Shay's Rebellion in mind. Illegal immigrants are not the sort of Invasion to which the clause refers. In fact, when President Cleveland relied on the provision to supress the Pullman Strike, most considered that to have illegally stretched the provision. And that was certainly more akin to the sort of insurrection that the Framers had in mind than illegal immigrants. (Remember that illegal immigration, no matter how angry it makes you and no matter how wrong you believe it to be, is a malum prohibitum crime and not a malum in se crime.)
by payback108 October 13, 2009 3:23 AM EDT
Enforce the law send them back and no more anchor babys
Reply to this comment
by joelwisch October 12, 2009 10:44 PM EDT
And boy it should boil over. Look at the current census and you discover there are 44 million Hispanics in this country.
http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/ACSSAFFFacts?_submenuId=factsheet_1&_sse=on
The Federal Government says there are 12 million illegal aliens in this country. That takes the number of LEGAL Hispanics down to 32 million Hispanics. Ah but... there are some eight million illegal aliens married and with children. The Feds probably have that number, bu lets say there are two children in each of the 4 million families. Add another eight million Hispanics that the Obama administration calls citizens, but which the 14th Amendment tells us in very, very clear language are ... illegal aliens. Soo.. lets take another eight million illegal aliens off of the Hispanics in the United States 24 million legal Hispanics.

The number is low, and probably very good, but lets also count perhaps four million illegal aliens in deep cover with their I.D.s. We probably won't ever get them which is not good at all, but, that leaves us with about 20 million legal Hispanic Citizens in this country and about 24 million illegal aliens in this country.

The fact of the matter is clear. That group of people collects a huge amount of welfare and if we provide them amnesty, the cost to the American People in the Health Insurance Bill and many other ways will be in the trillions of dollars. How in the world.. how in the world did anyone in Washington think we wanted to support millions of illegal aliens on our health bill? On any bill?

We need a new way of doing Government. The way we are doing it opened us up to catastrophic expenses by a Congress that works for Business. That has to change!
Reply to this comment
by centermike October 14, 2009 9:51 AM EDT
First, you rely on faulty math. Not all illegal immigrants are Hispanics.

Second, illegal immigrants do not receive welfare benefits. Even LEGAL permanent residents must pay into Social Security and Medicare for 10 years before they are eligible for benefits. (And actually, most never become eligble for SSI, for which one must be a citizen.) As far as cash assistance for the needy goes, native-borns are five times as likely to receive it as undocumented immigrants. And in anticipation of your next argument, while there is certainly some fraud such that illegal immigrants use false documents to claim public benefits, the frequency of this is so miniscule it is nearly impossible to track.

Finally, a personal anecdote. I helped an "illegal immigrant" get asylum status in this country not too long ago. He was African. What's more, he came here after escaping religious and political persecution, much like the Western Europeans did several hundred years ago. He works several jobs, goes to school and speaks English. Even prior to receiving asylum, he paid taxes. He is more industrious and contributes more to his community than many native-borns whom I know.

Going forward, try some fact-based arguments rather than prejudice-based.
by wmsshields October 12, 2009 8:33 PM EDT
The San Francisco-based Latin American Alliance for Immigrant Rights is also calling for a boycott of the census unless Congress acts to legalize undocumented immigrants before the census starts in April, according to the Oakland Tribune. >>> You have to be kidding me. Who is running this country; illegals immigrants or the unethical Dem party?
Reply to this comment
by OldGeezer43 October 12, 2009 8:23 PM EDT
We have two problems:
(1) Illegals that are in the country now.
(2) The continuing flow of Illegals coming in each day.
The most pressing seems to be number 2. Something has to be done to secure our borders. Fences or walls never seem to be an adequate solution. The main attraction is employment for survival. Some sort of two nations program to address immigration. Let's face it the Latino work force represents a vital segment of our agricultural production. They do the work we are unwilling to do. To have a secure border we need a secure neighbor like Canada to our north. I don't know the answer, but it needs to be addressed now. Number 1 is a whole different game. These Illegals are part of our society whether or not we like it. Have some way to integrate them into society. No answers from me. I think we should at least find out who is out there and the census is the best and most immediate tool we have.
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by pensacola8-2009 October 12, 2009 9:16 PM EDT
The problem is not as big as you are led to believe. You have been listening to Lou Dobbs, again. I wish he stopped playing with his Home-Lobotomy kit before getting on the airwaves and ranting his hateful rhetoric.
by stuart-johns2 October 12, 2009 8:00 PM EDT
Of course illegal immigrants should'nt be counted in the census. They are not citizens represented by any elected person.

What a totally absurd, stupid, dumb, inane and rediculous idea. Screw the illegal immigrants. I wish our government would abide by our Constitution. This will anger many on BOTH sides of the isle.

What audacity these people have to threaten to boycott the census. That just shows how illiterate they are as they would just be hurting themselves. And they don't MATTER anyway. This just ticks me off to no end.

America needs to grow a set and secure it's borders - permanently. I have no love lost for Mexico et al. All Mexicans do is run their drug trade here, form deadly gangs and assassinate innocent citizens who were simply caught in the crossfire.

GOOD! ALL ILLEGAL IMMIGRATS! WHY NOT JUST BOYCOTT AMERICA PERIOD!

The rest of America would like that just fine.
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