Hot Topic: A Gay Marriage Tipping Point?

(AP Photo/Damian Dovarganes)

The decision by the Iowa Supreme Court to overturn that state's gay marriage ban is prompting questions about whether or not the battle over gay marriage, long a central focus in the culture war, has reached a tipping point in American culture.

Iowa, as gay marriage backers like to point out, is not a liberal, coastal state like Massachusetts and Connecticut – the two states that already offer legal gay marriage – or California, where the narrow passage of a ballot initiative banning gay marriage last year galvanized the gay rights movement.

It is, instead, a Midwestern state in what is commonly called "the heartland" – an area of America thought to be more reticent to warm to liberal ideas, particularly when it comes to social issues. That's why Richard Socarides, a former adviser on gay rights to President Clinton, argued that the decision "represents the mainstreaming of gay marriage" – it's not just for the "tax-hiking, government-expanding, latte-drinking, sushi-eating, Volvo-driving, New York Times-reading, body-piercing, Hollywood-loving left" anymore.

"As Iowa goes, so goes the nation," he added.

At least that's one argument. It is not, however, the whole story. For one, the Iowa court has a history of being at the forefront of civil rights, as the New York Times points out – it struck down slavery in 1839 and segregation in 1868 and 1873 – and the state may not be quite as emblematic of Midwestern values as some might think. The state also has a reputation for an independent, live-and-let-live attitude that makes it perhaps more open to gay marriage than nearby states.

"People who know Iowa have been saying for some time that it is different from its neighbors," Jennifer C. Pizer of Lambda Legal, which argued the case in Iowa, told the Times.

And even as courts move to invalidate gay marriage bans on legal grounds, it's important to remember that no legislature has yet moved to legalize same-sex marriage – though that could happen this year in states like Vermont and New York.*

Indeed, most Americans do not support gay marriage: According to the latest CBS News poll on the topic, just one in three back full marriage rights for same-sex couples. Another 27 percent support civil unions, while 35 percent want no legal recognition at all.

Those numbers, however, have been moving, and not in the direction gay marriage opponents might like. In 2004, just 22 percent supported gay marriage – which means that there has been a nine-point increase in five years. And even the most optimistic gay marriage advocate would have been hard pressed, 15 years ago, to predict that 33 percent of Americans would be backing gay marriage by 2009.

In fact, the demographics suggest that support for gay marriage will only increase: Opposition comes largely from those 65 and older, just 18 percent of whom support gay marriage. Younger people – those 18 to 45 – are far more supportive, with 41 percent backing allowing same sex couples to marry.

Which brings us back to our original question: Have we reached a tipping point in the debate over gay marriage? Do you think it is just a matter of time before the practice is legal in most (or all) states – and, if so, how long do you think it will that take?

Or do you believe that those who oppose gay marriage will be able to turn back the tide, as they did last year in California? In Iowa, opponents of the decision have vowed to push a Constitutional amendment defining marriage as between one man and one woman, which could go into effect in 2012 at the earliest.

Let us know your thoughts below.

*Clarification: As commenters have pointed out, the California legislature did pass gay marriage legislation, though it was vetoed by the state's governor. Vermont has recently done the same, though that state's governor has similarly promised to veto the legislation.

Do you support legal marriage for same sex couples?

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 Yes
 No
 Not Sure

[amdphoto]

If my friends steal, commit adultry, murder, lie, etc. they don't come to me or reach out to the community asking for acceptance. Whatever fairy tale land you're in that you believe gay is no different, you're fooling yourself. If you're gay, be gay. Period. Live with your sin. Commit the sin but stop asking for a new definition and acceptance of gay behavior so as to eliminate the sin. It is what it is. There is nothing that can change that.

[amdphoto]

When you tolerate behavior which is detrimental, harmful, bad, wrong, etc. you create an environment for other forms of toleration of bad behavior and it will inevitably harm us in so many ways. Justification of behavior which is wrong (by a long standing proven definition of wrong) is a harmful thing to everyone. There are many consequences of gay behavior present although some try to say they are not consequences but just coincidences or harm caused by others. But there are visual consequences of this behavior to be observed by all. I can't help the blind.

[amdphoto]

Also, for all those people who want to call people names like homophobic. A phobia is a fear of something. I personally do not have a fear of gay people at all. I disagree with it. Period. Disagree and fear are not the same thing. I would guess that most people disagree with it and do not fear it.

[amdphoto]

Who does it hurt if I have an affair on my husband and no one but me and that other person knows. Come on.......don't you get it????

[Damon_Hastings]

You still haven't answered my original question: what potential harm is caused by gay marriage? And I don't want some vague platitude like "it threatens the sanctity of marriage" (which can mean whatever you want it to mean). Give me something specific. Who, precisely, is harmed, and how?

--Damon_Hastings
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...still waiting....

Anyone?

--Damon_Hastings

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You know, it's funny how the crickets come out whenever I ask for a concrete demonstration of actual harm to a specific person.

--Damon_Hastings

[Damon_Hastings]

You still haven't answered my original question: what potential harm is caused by gay marriage? And I don't want some vague platitude like "it threatens the sanctity of marriage" (which can mean whatever you want it to mean). Give me something specific. Who, precisely, is harmed, and how?

--Damon_Hastings
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...still waiting....

Anyone?

--Damon_Hastings

[book_worm13]

If your child observes a gay couple participating in a loving, caring, relationship they might just learn to love someone becuase of who they are. Alot of same-sex couples have more stable relationships than heterosexual couples I know. And I would be concerned if my child could randomly observe ANY neighbors having sex no matter what gender the participants may be.

[Damon_Hastings]

I will simplify this by saying if two gay people live next door to me and my children see them engaging in gay conduct (not sex but gay conduct) or the child of a gay couple accidentally sees them engaged in the immoral act of sex between them, it opens up the child's development in that the ability to justify their own actions based on an individual selfish reasoning can and does affect others in all areas of our society.
Posted by amdphoto at 8:30 AM : Apr 9, 2009
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Let me see if I can correctly summarize your reasoning:

1) Gay behavior is wrong because it could influence a child who observes it toward wrong behaviors.

2) The influence is toward wrong behaviors because gay behavior is wrong.

Does that about sum it up?

--Damon_Hastings

[Damon_Hastings]

I will simplify this by saying if two gay people live next door to me and my children see them engaging in gay conduct (not sex but gay conduct) or the child of a gay couple accidentally sees them engaged in the immoral act of sex between them, it opens up the child's development in that the ability to justify their own actions based on an individual selfish reasoning can and does affect others in all areas of our society.
Posted by amdphoto at 8:30 AM : Apr 9, 2009
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Let me see if I can correctly summarize your reasoning:

1) Gay behavior is wrong because it could influence a child who observes it toward wrong behaviors.

2) The observing child is influenced toward wrong behaviors because gay behavior is wrong.

Does that about sum it up?

--Damon_Hastings

[book_worm13]

Marriage is a traditionally religious term. Because of that the government really has no say over the definition of marriage. However, the government does have a say in the legal aspect of a union between two people. Legalizing same-sex unions does not mean every person has to like it. It also means not every church would have to perform ceremonies for these couples. The churches that are okay with same-sex marriages however could.
And believe me there are churches that would happily welcome same-sex couples into their congregation.
Also to the supposed biblical argument against same-sex marriage, the bible says alot of things we don't follow anymore. According to Leviticus 25:44, it is perfectly alright to own slaves. Lev. 11:10 states that eating shellfish is a abomination According to Lev. 19:27, men cannot cut the hair around the side of their heads or trim their beards. Leviticus is filled with rules that seem silly today. Even the text dealing with same-sex relationships is dealing with the actually act of sex between two unmarried people(which is banned for every relationship) not a committed reltionship. And to anyone who believes they are speaking for Christians everywhere when they talk about the sinful activites of same-sex couples.....stop.