Skeptics wonder: Where's proof bin Laden's dead?

A man watches a TV broadcast on the death of Osama bin Laden at a vegetable shop in the southern port city of Sidon, Lebanon, May 2, 2011.

/ AP Photo/Mohammed Zaatari

Updated 6:52 p.m. Eastern Time

At this point, the world has little more than the word of the American government that Osama bin Laden was killed in a daring raid on Sunday.

For some, that's not enough.

One American sent an email to CBS News complaining that "There is not a shred of evidence that Bin Laden has been killed and, of course, the media are not requiring any."

Asked the emailer: "Is it un-patriotic or un-American to ask how, specifically, we know that he's dead?"

Conspiracy theories, meanwhile, are already popping online. Asks the site Uncoverage: "After 10 years of searching for Al Qaeda mastermind Osama bin Laden, why would President Obama announce that the terror-master has been killed in a firefight with American special forces, announce that we have the body, and then DUMP THE BODY IN THE OCEAN two hours later, before anyone can see the body and verify it?"

Bin Laden's backers are also raising questions. On the Shomouk al-Islam forum, a gathering place for al Qaeda supporters, one vowed vengeance in the wake of the attack and wrote, "we are your soldiers Osama...Whether you are dead or alive."

Photos: America Reacts to death of Osama bin Laden
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Pentagon officials say bin Laden's body was buried at sea from the deck of a U.S. aircraft carrier following a religious funeral and ceremonial washing in conjunction with Islamic custom.

Two sources tell CBS News that one of the women in the compound at the time of the raid was one of bin Laden's wives, who identified him post-mortem. An intelligence official said he was also identified by members of the raid team. The official also said DNA from several bin Laden family members was used to verify bin Laden's identity.

A U.S. official told NBC News Monday morning that the Pentagon is in possession of a "very, very" graphic photograph of bin Laden's body - and that there is a debate over whether to release it. There is clearly an appetite for such a picture: A photograph of what was purported to be bin Laden's corpse circulated online Sunday night - though it was later revealed to be a fake.

In July 2003, the Pentagon released extremely graphic photographs of Saddam Hussein's two sons, Uday and Qusay, after they had been killed - after the two men had been touched up by a mortician. The release appeared to be an attempt to convince skeptical Iraqis that the two men were indeed dead.

It seems likely that the United States has a similar graphic photographs of bin Laden, who officials say was shot in the head during the raid. According to ABC News, President Obama authorized a bombing of bin Laden's compound in March, but cancelled it partially out of concern that such an attack would not allow the U.S. to prove that bin Laden is in fact dead. And a former Delta Force commander told CBS News Sunday night that "They would not have pulled the trigger until they knew without doubt they would have proof."

White House counter-terrorism adviser John Brennan said Monday afternoon that visual evidence of bin Laden's death does exist -- but a decision has not been made on whether to release it.

"We are going to continue to look at the information that we have and make sure that we're able to share what we can because we want to make sure that not only the American people but the world understand exactly what happened and the confidence that we have that it was conducted in accordance with the mission design," he said. "At the same time, we don't want to do anything that's going to compromise our ability to be as successful the next time we get one of these guys and take them off the battlefield."

"You have to take a look at it from the standpoint of what are the upsides and downsides?" Brennan added. "And sometimes when you conduct an operation that is based on intelligence and is based on the very sensitive and very capable forces that we have available to us in the U.S. government, you want to make sure that you're not doing anything to expose something that will limit your ability to use those same intelligence sources and capabilities in the future."

Picture of dead Osama bin Laden could embolden radicals

Former senior CIA official Michael Scheuer said on CSPAN Wednesday that he believes the administration "will be forced to put out the pictures" in order to head off conspiracy theories.

Colin Powell, the former secretary of state, said on CNN Monday the administration needs to decide a course of action based on the pictures themselves.

"You have to see the picture to make a judgment whether it's in our interest or not," he said. 

According to Associated Press sources, who spoke anonymously, bin Laden's burial at sea was recorded and the video may be released soon; the officials would say only that photos of the body itself may be released.

Assuming that bin Laden is identifiable in any post-mortem photographs - and that's not a sure thing in light of how he is said to have died - one can expect the images to be released. (Though one official told ABC News "There's no doubt it's him," bin Laden's brains and blood are reportedly visible, which suggests an identification may not be a slam dunk.) Until they are, questions will linger - particularly in the Arab world - over whether the architect of the Sept. 11 attacks is really gone.

[Fantasma64]

Logical Reasoning: The bin-bin' stronghold was attacked, yes! He was taken prisoner, evacuated aboard a helicopter and transported - possibly - to an aircraft carrier or other surface vessel. To avoid a possible rescue attempt by the terrorist al-Qaeda bin bin was transferred to a nuclear submarine that brought him - alive - to America (United States). bin-bin is now in some spa or in a 5-star CIA or Pentagon hotel. Who knows ... In some cell or dungeon in the basement of the White House. The apparent death of bin-bin serves only to massage the ego of Americans due to what happened on September 11, 2001 - my birthday and the worst gift I could have received. Until today, I feel a shadow of sadness on my birthday. The city of New York, Manhattan, Times Square and surrounding areas are not inhabited and frequented only by Americans but by people of all nationalities.
Dead bin Laden would not have much value to the U.S. Department of Defense. Alive, he is an archive of valuable information. So the United States agree to conduct the "facts" the way it is being conducted.
Simple well! ...

This has nothing to do with the "Elvis is not dead."

[SharpyWarpy]

Yes, New York City is indeed inhabited not only by Americans but by people of all nationalities. That is why terrorism does nothing politically. It can never achieve anything worthwhile because it can never garner support for itself by killing indiscriminately -- except the ignorant and brainwashed young men with nothing to lose and therefore nothing to contribute.
Bin Laden is dead. A living Bin Laden had no more to reveal to interrogators than the information the mission team retrieved from that compound. It was our goal from the beginning of the war on terrorism to seek out and destroy Osama Bin Laden.

[Fantasma64]

Raciocinio logico: O reduto de bin bin foi atacado, sim! Ele foi feito prisioneiro, retirado do local a bordo de um helicoptero e transportado, possivelmente, para um porta-avioes ou outro navio de superficie. Para evitar uma possivel tentativa de resgate do terrorista pela AL Qaida bin bin foi transferido para um submarino nuclear que o trouxe, vivo, para a America (Estados Unidos). bin bin esta agora em algum spa ou hotel 5 estrelas da C.I.A., ou do Pentagono. Quem sabe?... Em alguma masmorra ou cela nos poroes da Casa Branca. A aparente morte de bin bin serve apenas para massagear o ego dos americanos devido ao acontecido em 11 de Setembro de 2001 - dia do meu aniversario e o pior presente que eu poderia ter recebido. Ate hoje, sinto uma sombra de tristeza no dia do meu aniversario. A cidade de Nova York, a Ilha de Manhattan, Times Square e adjacencias nao sao habitadas e frequentadas apenas por americanos, e sim, por pessoas de todas as nacionalidades.
bin Laden morto nao teria grande valor para o Departamento de Defesa Americano. Vivo, ele e um arquivo de informacoes precioso. Entao, convem aos Estados Unidos conduzir os fatos da maneira que esta sendo conduzido.
Simples, assim!...
Isto, nao tem nada a ver com o Elvis nao morreu.

[DevilDoggie]

As usual, something stinks. This incident will be leveraged to drain more taxpayer money for defense, national security, or some other personal agenda. And we have to exercise faith again while they hide under the old 'national security' blanket again. The elitist attitudes pouring out of Washington make me sick. Tell the Photoshop guru to hurry up with the photos.

[creedenz]

I watch little TV so I have yet to be contaminated by our main stream press and the picture I'm getting here is the death of Bin Laden has been completely side tracked by non issues.

I see the real issue as being why was this man was killed and not questioned as we had done with Saddam? Why do we not question the fact that we have no real evidence of what really took place. He was thrown into the sea or some ridiculous statement that makes it impossible to confirm anything one way or the other?

It looks like allot folks here are letting their TVs do all the talking for them and then jumping to the comfort zone of what ever political side they may belong to for validation.

Let's see the body then ask why the man who they claim is to blame for much of the worlds KAOS was not questioned, that's the story. It just seems too convenient , if not far fetched for our government to play this hand in such a manner. To me it just does not add up and I don't trust the Intel

[CBSCOMMENT222]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5cm0pZX5gI 720p HD video Officer Weatherby, USCP, and elderly African American Woman

[buckyjsoprano]

the fact that we dont have proof makes me think of the story of jesus being resurected after 3 days... too many people have too many different opinions. are we supposed to rely on faith??? our government says its so, and so it is??? come on.. too many people lost too many loved ones in 911. they got rid of the body way too fast, and no proof for the rest of us.... ********.....I am so sorry to say.. I am not proud to be an american. i am fully embarassed to be one... how sneaky and weird..

[SharpyWarpy]

You are living in what is still the best country in the world. It is our military that says they got Bin Laden. They have proof and it is coming. As I have said elsewhere we must give the families of the 911 victims time for closure and time to get past the memories that most certainly came back to haunt them when they learned Bin Laden had been killed before the gruesome photos are released. To do that now would only stress those families more. Try to hold on to your American spirit. Hang in there, your embarrassment will disappear but you have to be patient. It has only been a few days. The evidence will be traumatic and shocking to some. These types of people will need support from the rest of all Americans. Try to understand even though Bin Laden was evil he had to be interred within 24 hours of his death in order to honour Islamic tradition. That is more important than rushing headlong into distributing what some people want to see but when they do they will be wishing they hadn't. I personally have faith in our military. They had a difficult and controversial job to do and I think they did it well. I am proud to be an American. I can't think of any other nationality of which I'd rather be a part. These are the times that make us what we are -- it only requires that we react in the correct manner. That involves giving the military the respect and thanks they deserve by allowing them time to do whatever else they have to do before releasing any evidence.

[JARDINIMAGIC]

If Bin Laden is Dead SHOW UP PROOF! I do not think this President has this right to Deny us the Proof! after 911 and how it Changed the United States and the Harm it Caused! I for one believe a SHOW US PROOF Campaign should be launched. I am sorry but the way this Government is being run I cannot take His word!

[SharpyWarpy]

Not sure what you mean about "the way this government is being run". It's not the President's fault the economy is so bad. Every country in the world is having trouble right now. It's mostly because of crude oil prices. Lately the Libyian revolution against Gaddafi has some effect on that. And now Saudi Arabia wants Democracy too. Freedom is not free. Right now is when we find out what kind of stuff we are made of. It is certainly not the proper time to whine and blame the government for everything. You say you want proof. How do you want it? With gory photos? With seeing the body in front of you? Would you put a mirror under his nose? Exactly how much proof do you really need? I just don't get it. The guy is dead, for crying out loud. Loosen up and be glad about it.

[CBSCOMMENT222]

Aslam wa laykum, peaceful possibilities and events upon you, how are you, President Zardar? Alhumdullilah at a giant step forward?

Bismellahi, bless, ... so a court order is not necessary, and so Pakistan and take leadership in this world debate of "Plaintiffs and Scientists, not terrorists"


Thank you,

W. Hale, aka, haji Mohammed A. Omar

enc. FAX to Chief Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry and Associates

cc: BHO, KBM,

blind cc:



FROM: W. Hale, aka, haji Mohammed A. Omar (5 page fax)

TO: MR. JUSTICE IFTIKHAR MUHAMMAD CHAUDHRY, HON'BLE CHIEF JUSTICE OF PAKISTAN
and Associate Justices
Supreme Court of Pakistan?Constitution Avenue, Islamabad
Telephone: [phone] ?Fax: [phone]
Email : [e-mail]

Wednesday May 4, 2011

re: Court order for Abbott-abad crime scene forensic, DNA print investigation.
Response inventory deficit disorder remedy


Dear Chief Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry and Associates:


REMEDY
Please issue a court order requiring President Zardari to invite scientists from Pakistan universities, as well as independent scientists from Indonesia, Egypt, MIT, Iran, Afghanistan, Rio, NYPD, and who else, to conduct forensic investigations of the "crime scene" in Abbott-abad inside the house - so DNA prints can be recovered, and Pakistan can take leadership of the international debate.

GROUNDS
Ideena s-siratal mustaqueem, Thy straight way, seeks to open first to God, and then open to our witnesses, if we have any besides God. In this case that requires we obtain independent confirmation of yes, or no, as to the true identity (ies), instead of "hear say" evidence and "photo shop" presidents.

COMPLAINT
Either way, Pakistan was denied the access to the straight way and the rewards from it.

If the US had invited Pakistan to confirm the identity of whom during the capture effort was killed, the alliance between the US and Pakistan would have been strengthened and Islam and the scientific method which has grown from Algebra and Islam would have made progress in mutual understanding.

If Pakistan had invited the US to participate in a joint crime scene investigation with DNA print forensics, then the Islamic, scientific method, of pent, unbent, pent, unbent& Whoops! RE-pent, forgive, accept forgiveness from the logic (aka, God), and re-start from where you were last sure you were doing things right, in this case using science to be sure.

But, neither of these two courses of action were pursued by either President Obama, nor President Zardari. Why?

Is this evidence of a "Double Watergate"? One president trying to boost poll ratings in the face of a $14 Trillion debt ceiling needing to be raised to $17 TT? Another president without the confidence to stand up for the right to privacy in your own home as long as you are not parked illegally, or disturbing the peace?

Will a court order from a Pakistan court initiate a process which should have been in the first utterances of either President? An offer to cooperate scientifically to prove together, once evidence became public. Because as long as evidence is hidden, the public office holders are innocent, unless colluding to hide the evidence [thn/] but once the evidence becomes public, then the public office holder has a moral, and legal duty to pursue scientific and independent methods to prove to "We the people" of the book and of the internet republic and the water world Eden for which it stands, exactly what is true, or unknownable.

CLOSING
Thank you for you consideration of this complaint.

If there is any way I can obtain official standing before a Pakistan court, I will be happy to file. Meanwhile I will try to find who can, and I hope you will to.

Truly,

W. Hale, aka, haji Mohammed A. Omar
202-465-0067

enc. youtube video link of reading this complaint aloud
Exhibit A - prior Facebook video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcjGCBuITU8

cc: President Zardari, in the hopes executive action can resolve this complaint without a court order. Also President Obama

Exhibit A.

What is Pakistani law regarding the investigation of a crime scene?

What is international law regarding establishing proof of crimes?

What US and Pakistan treaties cover the crime scene investigation at the Abbott-abad house?

Do the municipal police of Abbott-abad have jurisdictional duty regarding the crime scene?



The crime scene dna prints in the house in Pakistan have not been asked for by the United States,

and the Pakistan Government has not yet announced DNA forensic investigation of the
crime scene.

Why doesn't who want to know?

And when could who have
invited whom to jointly investigate the crime scene to teach the scientific method?

and also to strengthen our alliance with Pakistan.

DOUBLE WATERGATE?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rj_v0HeBZaM

Backup copy at - http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=13405934...

Double Watergate? Why no crime scene DNA investigation yet [HQ]

[jessi-bee]

I did some extensive research into just how long it takes to run a DNA test in the lab. This doesn't count collecting a DNA sample or transporting it to the lab. Just the lab work, cleaning, quality control, documentation, etc. It takes approximately 60 hours of labwork to run a single DNA test. That's just the labwork!

So where was this DNA test run? On the US Navy ship? Do US Navy ships have the equipment and technology to run such tests? If not, then where? Did they have a DNA puptent inside the helicopter and erect it right then and there, sterilize it for quality control, and run the test on a triple-time basis? It just doesn't add up. The federal government would want to be absolutely sure they got bin Laden, so they wouldn't have screwed around with some portable econo-testing kit. I think this Administration is running on the assumption that Americans are stupid and would believe anything if they just add the qualifier, "DNA proves it."

This is how I see it: Obama has been dropping in the polls, and next year is an election year. What better way to stir up Americans, increase patriotism, and improve his image than to kill Public Enemy #1? Obama wants to get reelected and this is his ploy to dupe Americans into voting for him again.

Of course, this is just my theory. Call me a skeptic or a conspiracy theorist (who are really just imaginative skeptics), but I don't believe this at all.

[SharpyWarpy]

The mission had been planned and preparations made beginning in October of last year. Yes, a Navy ship like an aircraft carrier can be equipped in that amount of time for DNA testing. A carrier is a huge ship. More like a small city. The carrier in question has a crew of over 3000. A few more would not sink it. The time frame you give for DNA testing is not realistic in this particular scenario. Not nearly as many hours are needed in such a specialized case and situation. All the preparation, the planning, the team that was undoubtedly assembled for the testing was very capable of performing said testing in much, much shorter time. When you give your time frame for DNA testing how many people are included in your man hours? There are variables for which you should account in this case. Yes, it is very believable to me it was done and done properly. Our military is privy to certain technologies that ordinary citizens are not. For example, how about a 60gb memory card? Just please try to be patient for the sake of the 911 families. Your proof is coming.

[curiousity21]

If they refuse to release proof, how do we know Bin Laden is really dead this time? The gov't said Osama Bin Laden was dead on December 26, 2001. How do we know this isn't another scam? I am very curious about all of this.

[SharpyWarpy]

As I recall the date you mention was a bombing raid. It was thought Bin Laden was there but he wasn't. That's why the Seals were sent in to that compound -- to be sure they got him instead of just bombing the place and killing all those children. Our government will release proof after enough time for closure for the 911 families has elapsed. Some things are more important than morbid curiosity and doubt. Just be patient.