Sen. Hatch: WH "fiscal cliff" plan a "bait and switch"
One day after House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, bluntly stated that Republicans and Democrats are "almost nowhere" in their scramble to strike a deal before reaching the so-called "fiscal cliff" at year's end, President Obama slammed the GOP for holding "middle class tax cuts hostage" and Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, charged that Mr. Obama's proposal is "a classic bait and switch."
Congress "can give families like yours a sense of security going into the New Year," the president argued in his weekly address, by acting now on "what we all agree on" - extending the Bush-era tax rates for Americans making less than $250,000 a year. If that doesn't happen, he said, "a typical middle class family of four will see their income taxes rise by $2,200."
Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner on Thursday presented Republicans with Mr. Obama's "balanced approach" to dealing with the series of tax hikes and spending cuts set to go into effect Jan. 1, which he says will draw a net $1.6 trillion in revenue by allowing the current tax cuts to expire for the wealthiest two percent of Americans and overhauling the tax code.
"It's unacceptable for some Republicans in Congress to hold middle class tax cuts hostage simply because they refuse to let tax rates go up on the wealthiest Americans," the president said, a familiar sentiment that has framed his weekly addresses now for months. Promising to "sign this bill as soon as Congress sends it my way," he said, "with the issue behind us, we'll have more time to work out a plan to bring down our deficits in a balanced way - including by asking the wealthiest Americans to pay a little more, so we can still invest in the things that make our nation strong, like education and research."
But in remarks echoing Republicans' general consensus, Hatch argued lawmakers looking for a long-term solution to bringing down the nation's debt will "never get there with the unserious plan the president proposed this week." The "disastrous Thelma and Louise strategy" being promoted by the other side, Hatch said, is a "bait and switch" and "would take us over the cliff, putting millions of middle-class families, small businesses, and our already weak economy in further jeopardy."
"The president has said he wants a so-called balanced approach to solve this crisis," the Utah senator continued. "But what he proposed this week was a classic bait and switch on the American people - a tax increase double the size of what he campaigned on, billions of dollars in new stimulus spending and an unlimited, unchecked authority to borrow from the Chinese. Maybe I missed it, but I don't recall him asking for any of that during the presidential campaign."
Mr. Obama's push to let the current tax rates expire for some Americans, Hatch said, would cost hundreds of thousands of jobs and nearly a million businesses. It's also "a strange turn of events," he added, "considering that in 2010 the president and 40 Senate Democrats supported extending these very tax rates, citing our sluggish economy, which was even stronger then than it is today."
A more viable option, Hatch said, is focusing on shoring up Medicare and Medicaid in sweeping entitlement reforms. Democrats "want more and more of the American people's tax dollars to spend without putting in place any meaningful and responsible reforms to the biggest government programs on the books," he said. "That just doesn't make sense."
GOP said Sweden was Socialist disaster and would fail, thing is, Sweden has been a model for Europe since WW2. __________________________________________
Why would you say something like this? The European model is a disaster.
BTW, when Sweden introduced their grand Tax the Rich plan in the 60's, two things happened in short order:
1) Money drain - wealthy taxpayers and businesses fled the country 2) Sweden went from #1 in productivity in the world at the beginning of the 60's to 16th by the 70's.
The rich fled and left behind a nation of deadbeats enjoying cradle to grave entitlements. They say swedes are some of the happiest people in the world. I guess a herd of cows just sitting there chewing their cuds waiting for the next meal to be dumped in the trough might just stand there in pleasant ignorant bliss.
Medicare and Medicaid along with Social Security are going broke. Need to balance these programs with reform, more revenue, and cuts. Democrats don't want to touch these programs so they don't lose votes. What about actually fixing things. Obama and democrats just want to raise more money, add more programs, raise the debt ceiling, and not actually fix anything but just kick the can down the road so more. Obama's plan is laughable.
We are all waiting for the House leadership to put forward its bill. ------
Well pete they did, and when you read it you'll see why the republicans aren't real anxious to discuss its specifics.
Its available here: http://budget.house.gov/fy2013prosperity/
It is a plethora of platitudes and feel good phrasing until it come to the numbers. I would refer you to page 88 where you will see the following things. Government outlays (spending) exceed revenue (income) in all years for 2013 to 2022. The debt currently held by the public estimated at $11.355 trillion will rise to $15.364 trillion in 2022.
The current deficit estimated at $1.18 trillion will decrease somewhat on a year by year basis but will still accumulate to a whopping $3.127 trillion by 2022.
In short, this is not a path to prosperity, its not even a start in the right direction. It solves nothing. Which is why they are so loathe to talk about it.
What you referenced was a position paper, not a bill to be sent to the Senate. The House leadership does not have the guts to send such a bill to the Senate at this time or they would have done so already. This demonstrates that even the Republicans understand that position paper is not worth the paper it was written on, or the bytes it takes up on a computer hard drive.
How would that work, we have over 16 trillion in debt and are running a current deficit of around 1.4 trillion. If we go over the cliff it calls for 1.2 trillion in spending cuts over ten years and around 486 billion new taxes for the coming year, that comes to about 606 billion, not even half of 1.4 trillion. Am I missing something here?
RepubliCon_Liar_RobMe replies: linkicon reporticon emailicon . . LMAO!....You're a moron HILLZ, everything I have posted, I have actually looked up the factual data and posted in my own words.
I challenge you ignorant Republi-minion, to prove ANY ONE OF MY POST was a "copy and paste" from somewhere else.
You, on the other hand, don't even look anything up, come up with information from your arse...LOl!... and look like an idiot on a regular basis by doing so.
Put some SOURCES down for your data moron....LOL!... I do so quite frequently. _______________________________ I guess you didn't read my posts when I sourced. Generally, it's not necessary to source information readily available to anyone with 2 and a half seconds and the sense god gave a gnat.
Well, then the House leadership should put their bill forward and vote on it. They are not required to increase tax rates. Let them pass their ideal bill and send it to the Senate.
Hillz: What specific bill are you referring to? Please cite the title of the bill. I can't find anything from the Republicans other than their position papers. Are you saying the Ryan budget proposal satisfies the Constitutional requirement that the House originate the bill?
GhostF1ghter says: Did you know that if Congress does nothing, the US debt completely disappears by the end of Obama's second term? Look it up.
-------
I did. I don't know where you got those projections but the CBO says the following:
Federal debt held by the public currently exceeds 70 percent of the nation's annual output (gross domestic product, or GDP), a percentage not seen since 1950. Under the current-law assumptions embodied in CBO's baseline projections, the budget deficit would shrink markedly from nearly $1.1 trillion in fiscal year 2012 to about $200 billion in 2022 and debt would decline to 58 percent of GDP in 2022. However, those projections depend heavily on the significant increases in taxes and decreases in spending that are scheduled to take effect at the beginning of January. ------- In other words these are the predictions if we go off the so called cliff. ------- If, instead, lawmakers maintained current policies by preventing most of those changes from occurring what CBO refers to as the alternative fiscal scenario annual deficits would average nearly 5 percent of GDP over the next decade, and debt held by the public would increase to 90 percent of GDP 10 years from now and keep rising rapidly thereafter. ------- Not such a good deal there, eh? It doesn't look so much like a cliff as it does a crossroads.
Unfortunately the Republican party is unable to focus on doing the job that they were elected to do and that is to work for the American people. All I hear is we lost the Presidential race and nothing about helping out the American economy. It is the responsiblity of all elected officials is to work for the American people and come to an agreement to help the economy. But again these same representatives are just worried about helping the wealthy (the ones who paid for the representatives election campaign) and ensuring that they do not get taxed and continue to make more money and penalize the working class. Eventually we will have two classes of Americans (wealthy and poor)and the parties will blame each other and I blame both parties for this issue. Here is an idea, why don't both parties forfiet their salaries, including their bonus (from the wealthy supporters)and pay it back into the deficit because apparently the American people are over paying the politians to make decisions when logic is no longer a requirement in determining what is best for the Nation.
Forfeiting Congressional salaries would be a nice gesture, but that's ALL it would be. It would be a mere drop in the deficit bucket.
The American people should be OUTRAGED by how infrequently Congress is actually IN session, and the time spent on political posturing and obstructing, with little of the nation's business addressed, when they DO bother to show up.
This past group was the WORST do-nothing Congress since the Truman administration, which passed 900 bills; this most recent one wasn't even close - they passed less than ONE HUNDRED bills.
The upcoming Congress' in-session 2013 schedule is only 126 days TOTAL. That's timed out to be almost precisely one THIRD of the year. What about those OTHER two thirds? Campaigning for 2014?
The American people should DEMAND they spend more time on the job and actually DOING the job.
We should ALL complain to our Reps and Sens immediately, and often.
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GOP said Sweden was Socialist disaster and would fail,
thing is, Sweden has been a model for Europe since WW2.
__________________________________________
Why would you say something like this? The European model is a disaster.
BTW, when Sweden introduced their grand Tax the Rich plan in the 60's, two things happened in short order:
1) Money drain - wealthy taxpayers and businesses fled the country
2) Sweden went from #1 in productivity in the world at the beginning of the 60's to 16th by the 70's.
The rich fled and left behind a nation of deadbeats enjoying cradle to grave entitlements. They say swedes are some of the happiest people in the world. I guess a herd of cows just sitting there chewing their cuds waiting for the next meal to be dumped in the trough might just stand there in pleasant ignorant bliss.
Please spare us any comparisons to Sweden.
... they only care when it's not going into their pockets. (period)
We are all waiting for the House leadership to put forward its bill.
------
Well pete they did, and when you read it you'll see why the republicans aren't real anxious to discuss its specifics.
Its available here: http://budget.house.gov/fy2013prosperity/
It is a plethora of platitudes and feel good phrasing until it come to the numbers. I would refer you to page 88 where you will see the following things. Government outlays (spending) exceed revenue (income) in all years for 2013 to 2022. The debt currently held by the public estimated at $11.355 trillion will rise to $15.364 trillion in 2022.
The current deficit estimated at $1.18 trillion will decrease somewhat on a year by year basis but will still accumulate to a whopping $3.127 trillion by 2022.
In short, this is not a path to prosperity, its not even a start in the right direction. It solves nothing. Which is why they are so loathe to talk about it.
Did you know that if Congress does nothing, the US debt completely disappears by the end of Obama's second term? Look it up.
---------------------------------------------------------
How would that work, we have over 16 trillion in debt and are running a current deficit of around 1.4 trillion. If we go over the cliff it calls for 1.2 trillion in spending cuts over ten years and around 486 billion new taxes for the coming year, that comes to about 606 billion, not even half of 1.4 trillion. Am I missing something here?
linkicon reporticon emailicon
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LMAO!....You're a moron HILLZ, everything I have posted, I have actually looked up the factual data and posted in my own words.
I challenge you ignorant Republi-minion, to prove ANY ONE OF MY POST was a "copy and paste" from somewhere else.
You, on the other hand, don't even look anything up, come up with information from your arse...LOl!... and look like an idiot on a regular basis by doing so.
Put some SOURCES down for your data moron....LOL!... I do so quite frequently.
_______________________________
I guess you didn't read my posts when I sourced. Generally, it's not necessary to source information readily available to anyone with 2 and a half seconds and the sense god gave a gnat.
We are all waiting for the House leadership to put forward its bill. Why didn't Hatch discuss the inaction of the House? Partisanship?
Hillz: What specific bill are you referring to? Please cite the title of the bill. I can't find anything from the Republicans other than their position papers. Are you saying the Ryan budget proposal satisfies the Constitutional requirement that the House originate the bill?
Did you know that if Congress does nothing, the US debt completely disappears by the end of Obama's second term? Look it up.
-------
I did. I don't know where you got those projections but the CBO says the following:
Federal debt held by the public currently exceeds 70 percent of the nation's annual output (gross domestic product, or GDP), a percentage not seen since 1950. Under the current-law assumptions embodied in CBO's baseline projections, the budget deficit would shrink markedly from nearly $1.1 trillion in fiscal year 2012 to about $200 billion in 2022 and debt would decline to 58 percent of GDP in 2022. However, those projections depend heavily on the significant increases in taxes and decreases in spending that are scheduled to take effect at the beginning of January.
-------
In other words these are the predictions if we go off the so called cliff.
-------
If, instead, lawmakers maintained current policies by preventing most of those changes from occurring what CBO refers to as the alternative fiscal scenario annual deficits would average nearly 5 percent of GDP over the next decade, and debt held by the public would increase to 90 percent of GDP 10 years from now and keep rising rapidly thereafter.
-------
Not such a good deal there, eh? It doesn't look so much like a cliff as it does a crossroads.
http://www.cbo.gov/publication/43692
The American people should be OUTRAGED by how infrequently Congress is actually IN session, and the time spent on political posturing and obstructing, with little of the nation's business addressed, when they DO bother to show up.
This past group was the WORST do-nothing Congress since the Truman administration, which passed 900 bills; this most recent one wasn't even close - they passed less than ONE HUNDRED bills.
The upcoming Congress' in-session 2013 schedule is only 126 days TOTAL. That's timed out to be almost precisely one THIRD of the year. What about those OTHER two thirds? Campaigning for 2014?
The American people should DEMAND they spend more time on the job and actually DOING the job.
We should ALL complain to our Reps and Sens immediately, and often.