Secessionist leader: Texas should separate from Marxist states

The leader of a secessionist group in Texas said Tuesday that a petition on the White House website to separate the state from the nation is growing in popularity because the "union has fundamentally changed."

"The fact of the matter is, that there cannot be a union between those that esteem the principles of Karl Marx over the principles of Thomas Jefferson. Here in Texas, we esteem those principles of Thomas Jefferson -- that all political power's inherent in the people," Daniel Miller, president of the Texas Nationalist Movement, said Tuesday on Fox News. "What we have seen given on Tuesday was that a majority of the people in the United States, and the states in which they reside, esteem the principles of Karl Marx over those principles."

On the White House's "We the People" website, a petition asking the administration to "Peacefully grant the State of Texas to withdraw from the United States of America and create its own NEW government" so far has more than 95,000 signatures (not all of them from Texans). The White House says it will respond to all petitions that within 30 days receive more than 25,000 signatures.

At least 47 states are represented by similar petitions, while others have started petitions in response to the secessionist requests. For instance, there's a petition to "Keep the United States United," as well as a petition to "Peacefully grant the city of Austin Texas to withdraw from the state of Texas & remain part of the United States."

Miller told Fox News host Sean Hannity that he doesn't expect the petition to do much more than "send a clear message." He does, however, want state lawmakers to take up the issue.

"Ideally what we would like to see is the legislature put it to a non-binding referendum," he said. "So the people of Texas could express their will on this issue. The polling we have done internally in our organization in every county in Texas shows we would carry a majority of Texas, but I think that takes us to the next step here."

Texas Gov. Rick Perry's office has said the governor doesn't support calls to secede, although he "shares the frustrations many Americans have with our federal government."

Republican Rep. Ron Paul, meanwhile, still believes that "it's very American to talk about secession," given that the U.S. began with 13 colonies seceding from the British.

[jakeshuman]

Let 'em seccede. Texas is the only Red State that gives more to the federal government than it gets back. I believe it's 96 cents on the dollar. All of the other red states get more than they give. I don't think it would be long before the new CSA government in Texas would be telling all of the others, "we have no more money to give." US businesses, due to trade restrictions and agreements, would probably move to Texas in droves because of local taxes and little government interference which would lead to more hours working for lower wages, and few safety regulations to support workers. The intelligentsia would leave in droves, if they're smart, and remain loyal to the US because the federal government is the one that supports most of the research facilities and thats where reasonable and high-paying jobs are.

[DirkDigglerXXX]

It is funny that these secessionist movements always pop up after a Democrat gets voted in to the presidency. (Don't hear this kind of talk when a member of the GOP resides at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave..) HAHA!!! Especially a black Democrat... What fruitloops...

[ExpatMoscow]

A flat income tax of say,15%, combined with a reasonable sensible corporation tax would cause a waiting line to get in. This would create a budget surplus that would far exceed federal budget losses.

[larrylinn1]

I doubt the good people of Texas have thought through all the issues. There are a great many things that would need to happen before the final day of Texas leaving the Union. These are some of the more superficial ones that I see no one addressing.
1. All military bases shut down with the loss of more than 100,000 jobs and four of the largest military towns losing millions of dollars in government funding.
2. All public schools closed and restructured with the new constitution of the Nation of Texas, with the loss of 7 major campuses and more millions in federal funds.
3. The closure of every federal government office buildings and the loss of over another 100,000 jobs and more millions of lost federal monies.
4. All citizens will have to surrender their Social Security numbers and the closure of all of the facilities involved with taxes and issuance of federal support.
5. all federal court cases, judges, Rangers, and border patrol facilities closed and relocated out of Texas.
6. Loss of revenue from the dissolved national and American league sports to include college level sports teams, which is easily over 2 billion a year.
7. Automatic disenrollment of all retirees from their benefits unless a dual citizenship is established.
8. Manufacturers that receive government support through federal IRA's and other retirement plans surrendered.
9. The loss of FDA control in the food surplus program and the closure of all national banks. Good luck getting your money from them.
and finally
10. How many millions/billions is the new government of Texas going to repay the federal government for the land that they purchased in the 1800's?
So there you have a barely scratched surface of 10 problems and a very wide view of 100's of billions in lost monies to the Texas Nation. Let's not forget the flood of immigrants that will swarm all over the Mexico border line the minute that you lose the backing of the US military.

[nenebird]

If you could further your points by adding the taxes paid by Texas tax payers and give me a net gain or loss to each of your numbered points then I'd really understand where the dust settles on this issue. Could you please?

[stevehamilton858]

You raise some interesting questions, but here is a BIG ONE: Why isn't threatening the viability of the United States of America considered treason, or sedition? I would like to see the leaders of this secessionist movement called before the Senate to explain why they believe their actions are not treasonous. I suspect that after each one of these troublemakers has had to pony up $250,000 or so in criminal defense fees to appear before the upper chamber, this ridiculous movement will die within a week. At last count there were 15 states talking about secession. Would not a 30% reduction in the number of states constitute a threat to the continued viability of the US?

And the people behind this are guilty of "Bushian ("W") logic": the inability to see beyond the end of one's Richard. What will each former state do about its borders with states that remain in the Union? Are they each going to set up a State Department to issue passports? And will they allow people who remain citizens of the US free access, or will they become immigrants? And if they are immigrants, will each state then set up its own Department of Immigration? And how will each former state pay for all of this new overhead/administrative costs? Who will lend them money or invest in them? And what are they going to do for a banking system? I cannot imagine that US based banks will want to offend Washington by opening up branches in these new "republics", or "fiefdoms" or whatever they are going to call themselves. And what will they do to defend themselves internationally? Set up standing armies, navies and air forces? And where will the money come from to pay for that?

So, let's use the law of the land to let these leaders bankrupt themselves, and this foolish, foolish concept will die before 2013 starts.

[cydygitt2]

AGGIEWIFE replies: "Texans send $320 billion a year to DC to get back ten cents on the dollar. Does this sound fair?"

---


This appears to be more lunatic fringe economics and a divorce from reality, than anything even remotely related to an Aggie.

The 10 states that give more to the federal government in taxes than they get in return are:

New Jersey, Nevada, Connecticut, New Hampshire, Minnesota, Illinois, Delaware, California, New York, Colorado.

Anything strange about that list? Yes, they are all blue states (or the deepest of purple).

Adding to this fallacy are the assumptions surrounding mitt romney's now infamous comments about the indolent "47 percent" of Americans who regard themselves as victims and therefore pay no taxes. As the American Conservative magazine (no less) pointed out recently, nine of those 10 states are in the red-as-ruby Old Confederacy.

Put another way, again by the American Conservative, "On the other hand, eight of the ten states with the highest non-payment rates are solidly Republican. The exceptions are New Mexico and Florida."

The top non-paying states getting more in return than paying in are:

Mississippi, Georgia, Arkansas, New Mexico, Alabama, South Carolina, Louisiana, Texas, Florida, Idaho.

So spare me all that red state angst about the federal deficits and national debt. When you stop spending New Jersey's money, Social Darwinist Texas, and produce a plan to replace it with your own revenue stream, then you've earned an opinion in the matter.

[cydygitt2]

Oh, BTW 'AGGIEWIFE,' here's the reference in 'The American Conservative,' that proves just how wrong you teabaggers are, parroting the usual fox/rush propaganda and GOP talking points:

Where Do the 47 Percent Live?

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/where-do-the-47-percent-live/

[nenebird]

All I can say is being foul mouthed and name calling in return doesn't further your point. If you could make your point without the "Social Darwinist Texas" name calling you might find the people from Texas who read your point might consider it more closely. Go ahead and throw muddy words around just like the others, it makes you a mud thrower too.

[johnpatrick1]

SOUR GRAPES FROM A BUNCH OF DIMWITS. HEY TEXAS...ONE WORD FOR YOU:
"APPOMATOX!"

[stevehamilton858]

Right. What if the Federal Government says, "No, you may not secede; it could threaten the viability of the United States of America, and thus your state's secession would constitute treason or sedition.

If the current 15 secessionista states continue their actions, it's not inconceivable that we could see a re-enactment of 1861. Why should the remaining 70% of the states just stand by and let the 30% risk America's viability?

[ludvig1-2009]

Right wing wackos!

[Mick_from_Amsterdam]

Hey No-Name,

How can PRESIDENT Obama be the most hated Chief Executive of all?

Bush II was surely the most inept, corrupt and intellectually challenged president we've ever had...at least during my lifetime...

But for pure treasonous goings-on, it would be hard for anyone to out dirty trick that low-life SOB Nixon.

I suspect that the reason he and his staff were so taken by surprise by the nation's reaction to Watergate was because to them, it really was just some harmless frat boy pranks pulled during a campaign for an election he'd already won...

And they really didn't consider that real treason when compared to Nixon's ULTIMATE dirty trick...pulled during the earlier presidential campaign of 1968...

He INTENTIONALLY sabotaged the Paris Peace talks...as an office-seeking private citizen, to prevent LBJ from ending the Vietnam war, which probably would have given the election to Hubert Humphrey

Remember the White Mice of Saigon arguing about the SHAPE of the conference table for 18 months? Of course he renegged on his promise to them of a better deal after he was elected

Nixon's interference in US diplomatic affairs during time of war prolonged the conflict for 7 more disastrous years at a cost of 40,000 additional American lives...just to win an election.

The SOB should be dug up every year during nationwide celebrations commemorating his death to be publicly flogged...then reburied along with a few LIVING members of the Bush/Cheney Gang

Your racism is showing, fool...as well as your illiteracy!

[nenebird]

I just love how people use past bad acts to EXCUSE current bad acts, laughable! A childish way of excusing bad behavior is to point fingers elsewhere. If you are literate, educated, sophisticated can't you find a better way to defend?

[jakeshuman]

Well, Nunebird, unless you have bad acts to learn from, there is no context, and one would keep repeating the same mistakes over and over. Your ideal would be like telling the Manson Family, "Oh, you can be paroled now ith no restrictions because all the people you killed were in the past." What hogwash.

[vpcharan]

All those who don't like to remain in the great union of US, they should be allowed to free themselves by deportation to China or any other country that would accept them. US is a democratic country where people accept the verdict of elections.

[Aggiewife]

Or they can come to Texas after it secedes!

[johnpatrick1]

Texas..been there. It sucks.

[MrWhooHoo]

Go. Leave. Please. SOON!!!

[nenebird]

In my opinion, we live in the UNITED states, each state should be respected without regard to whether or not they are a net winner or loser with regards to federal funding. We are united for a reason and we have a history and a foundation. We have a constitution that governs all the states, and each state has its own constitution. In a free society, governed by those ideals we should respect the process and defend those rights. We promote and defend democracy around the world, we should at the very least respect it here in our own borders nationally and by state. Quite disrespecting each other, quite name calling, be reserved, be patient, hold your foul tongues! You should be ashamed if you stoop that low when discussing something as serious and important as the Unity of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA! Shame on you who fail to act with honor and respect for others and yourselves.