September 19, 2011 12:53 PM

Secret recordings raise new questions in ATF 'Gunwalker' operation

By
Sharyl Attkisson
Topics
News ,
Law and Order

(Credit: CBS/AP)
Updated 5:09 pm, Sept. 19, 2011 with comment from the Office of the Inspector General

WASHINGTON - CBS News has obtained secretly recorded conversations that raise questions as to whether some evidence is being withheld in the murder of a Border Patrol agent.

MORE: ATF Fast and Furious secret audio recordings

ATF whistleblower called 'toxic' on secret tapes

(Scroll down to listen to the audio)

The tapes were recorded approximately mid-March 2011 by the primary gun dealer cooperating with ATF in its "Fast and Furious" operation: Andre Howard, owner of Lone Wolf Trading Company in Glendale, Arizona. He's talking with the lead case ATF case agent Hope MacAllister.

The tapes have been turned over to Congressional investigators and the Inspector General.

As CBS News first reported last February, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives allegedly allowed thousands of weapons to "walk" onto the streets without interdiction into the hands of suspected traffickers for Mexican drug cartels in its operation "Fast and Furious."

The conversations refer to a third weapon recovered at the murder scene of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry.

Agent: I was ordered to let guns into Mexico

Court records have previously only mentioned two weapons: Romanian WASR "AK-47 type" assault rifles. Both were allegedly sold to suspects who were under ATF's watch as part of Fast and Furious.

Also, a ballistics report turned over to Congressional investigators only mentions the two WASR rifles. The ballistics report says it's inconclusive as to whether either of the WASR rifles fired the bullet that killed Terry.

Law enforcement sources and others close to the Congressional investigation say the Justice Department's Inspector General obtained the audio tapes several months ago as part of its investigation into Fast and Furious.

Then, the sources say for some reason the Inspector General passed the tapes along to the U.S. Attorney's Office in Arizona: a subject in the investigation. It's unclear why the Inspector General, who is supposed to investigate independently, would turn over evidence to an entity that is itself under investigation.

A spokesman from the Office of the Inspector General today said, "The OIG officially provided the United States Attorney's Office with a copy of the recordings in question so that the USAO could consider them in connection with the government's disclosure obligations in the pending criminal prosecutions of the gun traffickers. Prior to receiving the tapes, the OIG made clear that we would have to provide a copy of the recordings to the United States Attorney's Office because they would need to review them to satisfy any legal disclosure obligations."

(Listen to the audio)

In the audiotapes, ATF Agent MacAllister tells Howard that a third weapon recovered at the Brian Terry murder scene last December is an SKS assault rifle. Agent MacAllister claims to know that the SKS "had nothing to do with" the Brian Terry murder and, unlike the WASR's, did not trace back to the Lone Wolf gun store.

It's unclear why a weapon would be, in essence, missing from the evidence disclosed at the crime scene under FBI jurisdiction.

Agent MacAllister and Howard (the gun dealer) also discuss various Republicans and Democrats in Congress who are investigating Fast and Furious. They express concern that whistleblower ATF special agent John Dodson has further evidence that could be damaging to the government.

Transcript of the audio below:

Agent: Well there was two.

Dealer: There's three weapons.

Agent: There's three weapons.

Dealer: I know that.

Agent: And yes, there's serial numbers for all three.

Dealer: That's correct.

Agent: Two of them came from this store.

Dealer: I understand that.

Agent: There's an SKS that I don't think came from.... Dallas or Texas or something like that.

Dealer: I know. talking about the AK's

Agent: The two AK's came from this store.

Dealer: I know that.

Agent: Ok.

Dealer: I did the Goddamned trace

Agent: Third weapon is the SKS has nothing to do with it.

Dealer: That didn't come from me.

Agent: No and there is that's my knowledge. and I spoke to someone who would know those are the only ones they have. So this is the agent who's working the case, all I can go by is what she told me.


  • Sharyl Attkisson

    Sharyl Attkisson is a CBS News investigative correspondent based in Washington. All of her stories, videos and blogs are available here.

Add a Comment See all 57 Comments
by RWT1D September 21, 2011 12:29 PM EDT
This program and ALL involved need to be completely exposed and those responsible charged appropriately. ALL OF THEM. But does anyone else feel like the New Chicago Mob has taken over? The landscape is littered with scandal. Chicago's new mayor can't even keep his boots out of the muck. this house of cards needs to come down before even more damage is done to our country. This administration makes Jimmy Carter look like George Washington reincarnated! This President has the leadership skills of a 3 year old and the ethics of a gangster. We have not had a President since the day he took the oath. What we have is a guy campaigning for re election. Screw the people, the country, our allies and our standing in the world.
Reply to this comment
by DeclarationOfIndependence October 8, 2011 4:01 PM EDT
There is no new Chicago mob anymore than there is a new Black Panthers. Both are directed and controlled by the same old Chicago families, near north and southside, and their pals scattered around the world. Same ol' same ol' greedy people who think owning the world will satisfy them. As they get older they get meaner and are developing and passing on their clubs to their offspring. They have slithered into all of our institutions briskly after WWII. Some before, but needed the influx of their kind to get things moving here, and they did. Thing is, there are always brick walls and they do not understand that. USA is the Final Answer and we are rising slowly but strongly, and they won't be able to go around, over or through. We can trace problems back to them and are close to transparency. If you don't understand, research while you can, starting with those first involved with O and guided him through schools, conversed with him about his communist upbringing and duties therein, told him of their support and promotions and protection in his life and career. Takes some dots to dots, but not too difficult. He's merely a puppet for their purposes. They don't understand that Americans are inching closer to their "hidden in clear view" corporations, positions, and charities that are established to "help" poor kids, but train them and make them available as workers in the campaigns of their "chosen" puppets. Checkout online the organizations that help poor kids... like Abner Mikva's club on Chicago Southside that "educated" some poor kids and as an example, one was shipped to a Northeast State to train other kids on getting O elected and he was "helped" into a major university as a result. You saw some of those kids doing a military/marshal arts routine a few years ago... probably will be ready to be part of that "domestic" military force O has already told you we need and many in audience cheered and smiled like the useful idiots they are. Wonder about George Kaiser's charity connections with poor kids. Oklahoma and CA. Check it out on the net... You know him... one of O's biggest contributiors/supporters and possibly an appreciator of Solyndra. Wonder where that money went. What we need is better protection for poor kids who are pulled into the circus by the fox. They should never be used for any political purpose... and it is happening. Bet it is happening big time on Chicago's southside now. Does Rahm make visits? How about the new police top chief he put in to replace the one maybe not so efficient in the goal. That guy pranced about the stage on one of the southside's big churches telling them guns were killing kids because that's what some people want, and the useful idiots cheered. Check it out on YouTube. Probably can still see the kids doing the military/marshal arts routines with chants. We must go for the source, they will always replace puppets.
by operaguy56 September 20, 2011 11:38 AM EDT
"Then, the sources say for some reason the Inspector General passed the tapes along to the U.S. Attorney's Office in Arizona: a subject in the investigation. It's unclear why the Inspector General, who is supposed to investigate independently, would turn over evidence to an entity that is itself under investigation."

For some reason? Some reason like: "Just thought you'd like to know about this witness - oh, by the way, if he got arrested or "disappeared" we could probably "accidentally misplace" this recording. But not if he's around to squel".

Providing this recording is no different than if 15 years ago they had called up John Gotti and said: "There is a confidential informant who has penetrated your organization we thought you might like to know about".
Reply to this comment
by NewDaddyDave September 20, 2011 10:36 AM EDT
In another recording posted by CBS (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20108460-10391695.html)

Those conversations recorded in March 2011 have a Govt agent saying that if they had a PI, they would investigate the Republican Senator Grassley who was perusing "Fast and Furious" case, to help the "Fast and Furious" investigation "go away".

Wow, so the agent admitted she would be willing to use blackmail A US SENATOR in order to remove focus from "Fast and Furious" investigations? (Very very troublesome)

Isn't that mighty coincidental that the House representative Issa who is now perusing this case (June 2011 and on), is now facing many personal investigations. Investigations just like this agent was recommending creating to help the problem "go away" from the senate side. (C-Span has many good videos House investigations of the whistleblowers, the DOJ stonewalling, etc. available on cspan dot org. Just search for "Fast and furious" in the c-span dot org search box)
Reply to this comment
by DeclarationOfIndependence October 8, 2011 4:15 PM EDT
Yes, better buy those dvd's from C-Span, fast and furiously because those who can will be stopping sales or saying no more are being burned from those events... And, don't forget, DOJ babe slammed Mr. Christian Abbott, a DOJ attorney, in the Black Panther's case (drop the New, get real) by telling the attorney staff that no cases would be brought if perp was black and victim is white. He was in a Hearing, and resigned his career job because of her illegal unconstitutional directives.
by Dgunner September 20, 2011 10:20 AM EDT
As a american some feel they have the right to know all the govt. secrets if they want to ask? The problem is the mentality of the americans that would take them out meaning and use them as a exscuse to attack thier govt. from within.If and a big IF the secrets were made avilable ? The US govt. would just rewrite them to exclude the damaging parts of the file or action.There people among our own nation who would love to have the chance to justify thier actions against innocent people. The keeping of secrets is for the protection of this country's citizens not to hide from them illegal activity.Actions that are donned illegal are sometimes a necessary in order to fight fire with fire. We as american citizens have to realize our enmies don't have a rule book and they have little or no regards for american citizens oo our way of life. Freedom is not cheap and must be protected at all costs even if it means lieing to the very people whom are being protected.
Reply to this comment
by SirGareth September 20, 2011 11:34 AM EDT
Dgunner,

Perhaps you should devote more time and energy to the use of our common language. Please do not tell us that you graduated from a government run high school.
by DeclarationOfIndependence October 8, 2011 4:20 PM EDT
Your thinking is right and clear. We have a lot of educated masses (messes really) in our country now that have big time degrees but cannot understand intent of a message. You are on target. Thanks, American.
by sloopy1234 September 20, 2011 8:43 AM EDT
Looks to me that MR. Wonderful is going to hang. They have so much on him and now is the time to just go all the way this. I wouldnt miss this for the world.
Just think all this planning and skimming he's been doing to fix it so if your here illegaly you can stay well now he wont be able to do that because he 's not an American and that will come out also and all that mess he has caused will be revoked out side of all the money hes spent and no one seems to know where the money is Ill bet it over sea's just waiting for the Obamas to come and claim it.
Reply to this comment
by karek40 September 20, 2011 7:50 AM EDT
The government hides information and lies as does our president and we are supposed to have confidence in the government. yeah right
Reply to this comment
by MalloryDavis September 20, 2011 4:49 AM EDT
Obama is running around like a crazed monkey and all he is doing is destroying. No need to bring up Bush and his issues...we're dealing with ObamaNation now. He's involved and whatever they do WE CAN DO. FTG
Reply to this comment
by StandUpAmerica September 19, 2011 11:38 PM EDT
CBS is so late and so luke warm in their coverage of anything that might hurt Obama. Why did they not vet Obama and his cronies BEFORE the election? CBS has done a great disservice to this country. Remember this a year from now when CBS is pummeling Obama's presidential race adversaries.
Reply to this comment
by NCDEN September 19, 2011 10:50 PM EDT
Nixon was crucified by Democrats for less than what Obama does every day.

Criminal cover ups, enemies lists, harassment of political enemies by Federal agencies, suborning perjury of U.S. Military, Justice Department prosecution of political enemies, etc., etc.
Reply to this comment
by ParasiteHunter September 19, 2011 10:13 PM EDT
The banner at the top says "CBS Investigates". Really? A YEAR after BigGovernment.com started running the story and and Fox News soon followed suit, you are investigating? Here's a tip, Bush Did It. Obama Inherited the problem. Just ask Dan Rather. CBS is an embarrassment.
Reply to this comment
by gamomx3 September 20, 2011 8:32 AM EDT
Amen! It is embarrassing that only snippets of this story appear every so often. F&F is a sinister operation!
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