Marine takes aim at military's free speech limit

(AP) CAMP PENDLETON, Calif. - A Marine facing dismissal for running a Facebook page criticizing the Obama administration is now backed by a team of lawyers and federal congressmen as he fights to stay in the military and test its age-old policy of limiting the free speech of service members.

Sgt. Gary Stein will appear before a military board at Camp Pendleton on Thursday to argue his case.

The 26-year-old Marine has been rallying for support since he was notified last month that the military was moving to discharge him after determining he was in violation of the Pentagon policy barring service members from engaging in political activities.

Stein's lawyers and the American Civil Liberties Union say his views are protected by the First Amendment.

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"The military may be different from the civilian world, but it's not exempt from the First Amendment," said David Loy, legal director for the ACLU of San Diego and Imperial Counties. "Sgt. Stein didn't say anything for which the Marine Corps has any right to punish him. He did not threaten order or discipline or take positions that anyone would attribute to the Corps. Indeed, the Corps is threatening loyalty and morale by persecuting a good Marine for exercising his free speech rights."

The nine-year member of the Marine Corps says he started a Facebook page called Armed Forces Tea Party to encourage fellow service members to exercise their free speech rights.

The Marine Corps has said that it decided to take administrative action after Stein declared on Facebook that he would not follow unlawful orders from Obama.

California federal Rep. Duncan Hunter, R-Alpine, a former Marine, wrote a letter to Stein's commanding officer stating the sergeant should not face dismissal for an opinion shared by "a majority of Marines." Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Vista, also has expressed support for Stein.

Stein said his statement about Obama was part of an online debate about NATO allowing U.S. troops to be tried for the Quran burnings in Afghanistan. In that context, he said, he was stating that he would not follow orders from the president if those orders included detaining U.S. citizens, disarming them or doing anything else that he believes would violate their constitutional rights.

The military has had a policy since the Civil War limiting the free speech of service members, including criticizing the commander in chief. Military law experts have said he may have crossed the line.

According to Pentagon directives, military personnel in uniform cannot sponsor a political club; participate in any TV or radio program or group discussion that advocates for or against a political party, candidate or cause; or speak at any event promoting a political movement. Commissioned officers also may not use contemptuous words against senior officials, including the defense secretary or the president.

Stein said in addition to being discharged, he would have his rank reduced to lance corporal if he is proven to be in violation. He said he was removed from his job at the Marine Corps Recruiting Depot in San Diego on Wednesday and given a desk job with no access to computers.

Stein's lawyers asked a federal judge Wednesday to impose an injunction to block the military's discharge hearing so they could have more time to prepare their case.

The judge denied the request.

[rml5811]

As a FORMER (NOT EX) Marine I made an oath:
"I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God. "

There was no option for picking and choosing the president I wanted to obey. If I were still in I would perform my duties and follow the orders of my commander in chief and proudly serve MY MARINE CORPS as I swore I would... as a Proud Marine who follows lawful orders...
I have no respect for those who would spread discontent, rumor, and innuendo in order to advance their particular political cause, be it Democrat, Republican, Tea Party or whomever... this politically divisive dribble is below the feet of a proud honor-bound Marine, and any that does so presents a danger to the United States Marine Corps and should be punished severely.

[nozmo_king]

This is just one more nail in the coffin the Obama administration is building to bury our constitution and the Bill of Rights that this soldier is prepared to give his life to defend. Obama is no "fellow soldier" and each and every one of us has the right speak our mind. We are now just one step closer to the military state I believe this "president" endeavors to create.

[bigtat]

This is all B.S. The Sgt made a comment about a man that has NO right to be President or Commander. All Obummer is doing is killing this country, he needs to go Not the Sgt...

[jsnight]

If a solider must obey an unlawful order why do the military courts put them in jail for it?

[JVILLEMAN_NC]

As an ex marine, I am disgusted by the actions of, Marine Sgt. Gary Stein. You sign a contract and vow to defend the United States....Not to pick and Choose what you feel is okay....you have absolutely no knowledge nor comprehension of what the CIC knows. As much as I personally dislike,
President George W.Bush...I would never have attacked him so publicly, as you have President Obama. You soon to be a civilian, Gary Stein, are a disgrace to the uniform, the United States Marine Corps, and to the Nation. I sincerly hope you are dismissed and branded as a coward and drummed out ot the USMC with a dishonorable discharge.

[mick7744]

I saw what I BELIEVE was the last man drummed out of the Marine Corps at the Brooklyn Navy Yard in early 1962 when I was waiting to ship out for duty overseas.

The guy was a criminal who attacked fellow Marines with a pipe and robbed them as they left the NCO club...not some military misfit like this Stein character...

The experience...especially the part where each assembled unit did an about face...turning their backs on the prisoner as he was he was marched past them toward the main gate...kept me on the straight and narrow for years...earning me an undeserved decoration for three years of undected crime (good Conduct)...and stays with me to this day...as I'm certain it stayed with the very shaken object of the excrscise, who had to be carried by his prison chasers the last hundred feet..his seabag with all his possessions tossed out the gate and him ordered to follow it.

Given the choice...I believe I would would have preferred a flogging to that...

[Overruled1]

Exactly, the only time I cut down an atheists belief in nothing, is when they attack our beliefs in God and religion.....I couldn't care less that they believe in something, nothing, or everything.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe in things that are real, you go on being ignorant of true history, keep denying reality.
Archeology has done more to prove mankind's true history than any religion on the planet can be true to any god.
Man evolved.
There is wisdom in the bible which was published by Constantine the Great and the Council of Nicaea to establish a document upon allegiance would be rendered. One line in it reads, "The Truth Shall Set You Free"......And I know it.

[bileven]

funny Overruled, since the National Historical Society has deemed the Bible Historically accurate.

As for Man Evolving, well, based on given Laws of Science, it's impossible for anything to "Evolve". The Third Laws of Thermo Dynamics states that all goes from Order to chaos, so any change in genetics would be de-evolving.

The solar system, namely the degeneration of the sun and the lunars pull away from earth has actually proven that the "Theories" to attempt to disprove the Bible are wrong, but they horror associated with that would prove to much for the sheep.

[MiscAdverts]

I'm with you Overruled... there is a lot of real and tangible evidence of our past experiences on earth that is easy to access and think about but which gets ignored.

As for bileven.... what is the National Historical Society? I've never heard of it. Who and what is it... I'm curious. Also, where did they publish that that bible is historically accurate? Did they also mention who wrote the bible.. and explain why there are so many different versions?

[occupy_cbs]

EmpireGeorge: "I'm chewing up and spitting out libs"



In your dreams, but I'll be sure to pray for you, since you need all the help you can get with so much hatred in your heart and soul!

[Zann-Zel]

EmpireGeorge______------- April 5, 2012 5:25 PM EDT
Zann-Zel, you and Ranger mentioned Easter......which released the Kraken !!! (the atheists) who just hate anyone who dares to have faith in something greater than mankind.
-----------
LOL! I so don't get it! We are lucky to live in a country where we can celebrate Easter or NOT! Believe or not believe! But what's the point of cutting down others for their beliefs?

[Zann-Zel]

We need to bring back that saying..."Live and Let Live"! : )

[Obama4more]

by alongawaitedfriend April 5, 2012 4:22 PM EDT
I'm ex-military. I was both an enlisted man and an officer. This guy has clearly crossed the line. If he wants to be political, fine, then get out of the service. All this nonsense about he's not going to obey an order because HE thinks it's unlawful is ridiculous.

Discharge him immediately.
-----

As a retired Air Force Officer, I agree with you 100%!!!

[bileven]

So, my question, if he published a site "Pro-Obama", would you feel the same? How about a "Pro-Abortion"? By the standards, they would be charged just the same for having ANY public opinion.

I do respect the chain of command, but speaking out your frustrations should not be held against them. If he had DONE something, that's another thing.

[MiscAdverts]

At will employees all across America can be fired for insubordination which includes making derogatory comments about the firm/employer/boss. This is because employees are there to simply do their jobs. Another reason is that by creating a negative atmosphere it becomes difficult for people to work. A week or so ago there was a story about a young woman in Chicago who posted many times on facebook racists feelings about black people. She was fired from her bartender job. While everyone agreed she has the right to spew whatever ugly thing she is thinking about anyone she chooses, her employer felt her public statements cast its business --- which has many black customers --- in a negative light. Her employer didn't want its business associated with her racist views, and I expect that her hatred of black people meant she was not giving them equal service, which is what she is paid to do.
This marine is paid to protect our country. He is not paid for his advice or thoughts about his boss Obama, or any of his other commanders. Unlike the waitress whose comments could have simply resulted in lost revenue and reputation, the marine's bad mouthing his boss could cause a negative atmosphere amongst the troops who we pay and expect to take the orders given to protect America and Americans. You do not need to know a lot about how the armed services works... just common sense alone will tell you that a disgruntled employee who knows how he should act but refuses to tow the line... is someone that cannot be trusted when push comes to shove. I would not want to have this marine in my outfit if we were going into combat... because I could not trust he would follow orders. And before you try and argue that the marine is right in everything he says and thinks.... I can only point out that he has not been clever enough to become the boss and tell everyone how it should be done.

[occupy_cbs]

The_Bad_Ranger: "Don't forget - Today's Good Friday"



Maybe in Australia, but today's Thursday in the U.S., ringer.

You must be guzzlin' the Tequila already, and hopefully it's anejo!

[occupy_cbs]

No insults, just facts, unlike your conspiracy theories and whatnot!

Aren't you late for your teabagger extremist meeting?