"Personhood" bill gains momentum in Okla.

OKLAHOMA CITY - The Oklahoma Senate has overwhelmingly approved an anti-abortion "personhood" bill that declares life begins at conception.

The vote Wednesday upset doctors who fear the proposed law will jeopardize reproductive medicine.

The bill now heads to the House, where it is expected to pass. Republican Gov. Mary Fallin typically won't comment on pending legislation, but she has described herself as strongly "pro-life."

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The bill provides embryos and fetuses with "all the rights privileges, and immunities" of other citizens.

Republican Sen. Brian Crain says it's modeled after a 1986 Missouri law that was later determined by the U.S. Supreme Court to be constitutional.

The bill is opposed by the Oklahoma State Medical Association, because of concerns it could affect reproductive medicine and ban certain forms of birth control.

[icjunior97]

Ok since they are ready to open this pandora box, I have some questions. Are you going to keep track of all women in OK that is or will be expecting? How? Are you going to supervisor drugstores to see who is buying tests? Are you going to track everyone woman who miscarriages, how exactly and who is going to pay for that? What are you going to do about IVF, people who are unable to have children who are going through IVF treatments? Are you going to track those also, again who is paying? Are you going to allow a person to claim this new "person" on their taxes, since it has rights now or what about welfare programs for this new person rights?

[nottblu]

of course you are not serious, why is it you people go over the top?

[MekhongKurt]

Despite Missouri's 1986 law on which this Oklahoma legislation is modeled having been found constitutional by the Supremes, I still foresee enormous problems with it.

Arguably the chief is that if even the recognized experts in the subject -- medical researchers, ethicists, theologians who focus their entire careers on such issues, etc. -- can't agree on when "life," and thus "personhood," begins, then how in the world can a group of legislators? It's true that some may themselves have two identities -- one as a legislator, the other as just the sort of expert I listed above. However, the same would apply to that legislator as does all such experts: the lack of consensus.

The question is also closely tied to an individual's personal belief system. Clearly, not every single Oklahoman will agree with this law, should it pass as expected. Since one of the first principles of our country is the protection of minority rights, how do we reconcile Oklahoma's probably-about-to-become-law with the principle of protecting minority rights? I'm as stumped at 60 as I was decades ago by such vexing questions. This legislation effectively seeks to trump minority rights, imposing the majority's belief system on those in that minority.

I have my own views, of course, but I have no intention of introducing them here, if for no other reason than I'm not, and never have been, an Oklahoman. But I do hope those who are Oklahomans, whatever their personal views, will reflect on how to accommodate ALL Oklahomans' views, not only their own. And I do mean ALL Oklahomans, I hope, will do so. Set an example for the rest of us.

[sandiegopete]

Servorum posted:

" Since medical science has firmly established that life does indeed begin at conception, why shouldn't the law reflect this simple fact?"

--------------

The problem with your argument is that you have left the definition of life open. Is a cancer in the body a separate life from the host? Why would a fetus inside a woman be considered anything other that a part of the woman? The fetus receives nutrition from the woman, just as a cancer receives nutrition from its host. Until there is a birth and the umbilical cord is cut the fetus is a part of the woman and not a separate individual.

[Lindag10]

sandie: I agree with you there. There is a life form within the woman, but is it a "person"? I don't believe it is, others believe just the opposite. I have a problem endowing the unborn with the rights that those already living independantly of the "host" (for want of a better word) have. I believe personhood happens when the child leaves the womb and takes its first breath. So personhood becomes a matter of personal belief and this law is attempting force the personal belief of the legislators, that personhood happens at conception on the citizens of Oklahoma. Furthermore I don't think God gets nearly as upset over abortion as PEOPLE do. The social conservatives follow the stern, moralistic, demanding God of the Old Testament (sort of like modern day Pharisees), but I see the kind, caring, forgiving God that Jesus taught who loves us unconditionally no matter WHAT we do. I've had a very difficult life and I've found that many decisions are driven by financial, emotional and physical forces beyond our control. I believe that if a woman choses abortion, God knows and understands her situation so isn't at all angry with her decision. Can't say the same for anti-abortionists, they REALLY get in a tweak over abortion.

[dzaffina]

we need freedom from religion.

[Zann-Zel]

I heard of this country once that was created for the freedom from religion................

[Lindag10]

Zann: Yeah it was called the USA. Whatever happened to it?

[fastdraw2]

It just may be time to think about leaving. I for one absolutely refuse to live in a country run by religious bigots. If I want that I'll move to Saudi Arabia.

[ddal10]

You don't have to leave, Democrats will be here for a long time to keep the Republicans in check.

Chill, and be Happy!

[Zann-Zel]

You leave they win. Stay and fight! : )

[ddal10]

There is an awe-full lot of Money to be made dividing Americans and like dummies we keep falling for it, myself included. If I have learned anything in my 5 decades on this planet, the ones who make the most money off of it are almost always Lawyers.

Lawyers have given me a distrust of the English language.

[servorum]

Since medical science has firmly established that life does indeed begin at conception, why shouldn't the law reflect this simple fact?

[ddal10]

Mind your own business. This is between a Women, her Doctor and her idea of God.

[ddal10]

Everyone is entitled to their own Journey for the Truth and it doesn't always resemble yours. That is the Beauty of America, Freedom to worship as you please. The Genius of our Founders...

[ddal10]

Republican pretend they are the "party of Family Values" but they have many skeletons in their closet that they keep trying to get people to forget about;
Republican Mark Foley and his Congressional Page Boy Toys...
Republican Mark Sanford and his Hot Tamale in Argentina, Adultery...
Republican Newt Gingrich and his Adulterous affairs...
Republican Larry Craig and his Airport Restroom Boy Games...
Republican Vitter and his Prostitutes...
Etc, etc, etc...
Republicans need to get off their High Horses and quit Pretending thay have the Market cornered on Morality.

Stop, Just stop!

[Zann-Zel]

Oh but they are for "saving babies" so all the rest is to be forgotten! *saracasm off*

[ddal10]

For every Republican Man, there are many Democratic Wives!

[Zann-Zel]

shudder! I could Never be married to a Republican!

[ddal10]

LOL!

[ddal10]

If it were up to Republicans, we would be having Women Stoned in the Town Square and Honor Killings just like they do in Iran...

Republicans keep forgetting we have a two party system and the other side are Democrats and Guess what?

They aren't going away anytime soon Thank God!

All this Bill will do is enrich Lawyers because it's ultimate goal is to overturn Roe Vs Wade. Republicans would have to get a majority in the Senate and the House, win the Oval Office and then stack the Bench with conservative Justice. That won't happen in anyones lifetimes.

This is a Moot Issues that is Dredged up ever Freakin Election by Republicans. They had the Power to change it in the last Administration and did not. Why?

They didn't want to lose Women Voters...

Keep falling for this stunt every election people, the Republicans pull it out of their Magic hat every election.