Boy Scout families deliver petition urging end to policy banning gays
IRVING, Texas The Boy Scouts of America's national executive board began three days of closed meetings Monday that are expected to include a discussion of its policy excluding gay members and leaders, and Scouts on both sides of the debate are weighing in.
Boy Scouts may reverse ban on gay members
The meetings are getting far more attention since the organization announced last week it would consider allowing individual troops to decide whether to allow gay membership. Police and security guards kept watch at the suburban Dallas hotel where the meetings are being held, and reporters were barred from talking to board members.
Several current and former Scouts, leaders and their supporters rallied outside the organization's nearby national headquarters in Irving, Texas, armed with four boxes of what they said were 1.4 million signatures on a petition opposing the Scouts' current policy. Jennifer Tyrrell, who was removed as a den leader of her son's pack in Ohio because she is lesbian, called the exclusion policy "archaic."
"Countless Boy Scouts and leaders have been removed from scouting just because they are being who they are," Tyrrell said. "I don't want one parent to have to tell their sons they can't be part of Scouts because they're not good enough."
Brad Hankins, an Eagle Scout and campaign director of the group Scouts for Equality, said he and other heterosexual Scouts see no reason for gay members to be excluded. And changing the policy to allow some troops to still exclude gay Scouts wouldn't be enough, he and Tyrrell said.
"We don't want to see Scouting gerrymandered into blue and red districts," Hankins said.
But in Utah, Boy Scout leaders issued a letter asking the board to take more time before making "a decision which cannot be undone." The Great Salt Lake Council didn't specify whether it opposed a policy change, but said it had the support of 32 other scouting groups, which it didn't identify but said 23 were in the West and the rest were scattered around the country.
"Adages about `measuring twice and cutting once' exist for a reason," the council's letter read. "There is no compelling reason to accelerate this decision ahead of a full analysis."
At the BSA's headquarters in Irving, a security guard took the petitions inside about 90 minutes after the activists arrived, and BSA spokesman Deron Smith later issued a statement saying the group works "to treat everyone with courtesy."
"The BSA has received a great deal of feedback from a variety of viewpoints and we appreciate everyone sharing their perspective on this issue," he said.
National groups on both sides of the debate have sent emails to supporters and announced they were buying newspaper ads to draw attention to the issue.
In a Sunday interview with CBS Evening News anchor Scott Pelley, President Obama said the Scouts should open their organization to openly gay members.
Obama on women in combat, gay Boy Scouts
"My attitude is that gays and lesbians should have access and opportunity the same way everybody else does, in every institution and walk of life," Mr. Obama said.
"The Scouts are a great institution that are promoting young people and exposing them to opportunities and leadership that will serve people for the rest of their lives," Mr. Obama continued, "And I think nobody should be barred from that."
Texas Gov. Rick Perry, an Eagle Scout who has written a book about Scouting, said Saturday that he opposed a change to what he saw as Scouting's century-old values.
"I think most people see absolutely no reason to change the position and neither do I," Perry said.
Two high-powered board members — Ernst & Young CEO James Turley and AT&T Inc. CEO Randall Stephenson — have said they would work from within the organization to change the membership policy, which stood in contrast to their own companies' non-discrimination policies.
Others on the board declined to comment or did not return messages seeking comment last week.
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Listening to the Gay men I have know and know, boys can figure out whether they are gay from age 5 on up (many in their teens and after). Many of them were in families which chose to discriminate against homosexuals and they suppressed their feelings (from news stories many are kicked out of their homes and some even commit suicide which is most unfortunate). No guy wants to be bullied, attached, etc . so those who can suppress their feelings t do suppress their feelings. The right wing media and right wing religions paint homosexually very negatively (also referring to all gays as effeminate which is totally wrong - most gays I know are not effeminate at all). So, boys suppressing their feelings are in the boy scouts now - and will continue to be (it would be healthier if they could be out).
Now a comment on whether homosexuality is genetic or not. First, let's get the difference between homosexuals and gays out and on the table. Homosexuals are any guy who has sex with other men which can include totally straight guys who just want to have some fun. Gay guys are guys who are truly attracted to other guys and have the ability to (later) love guys (as a straight person would love a girl friend or wife). So, when one talks about gays, let's not confuse them with those homosexuals who are not gay at all (maybe bi for sex).
Next, let's understand how gay's are made (excluding straight guys having fun together). Common reasons presented are that it is genetic, god makes them that way (remember, Christians' believe in a spirit and that spirit may be gay), some may be influenced to be gay, or some may be recruited. Let's dismiss the last two (influenced or recruited) because no guy would ever want to be referred to as gay after recognizing how gays are discriminated against - no guy would ever do this voluntarily. So, it is then genetic or the person's spirit as created by God. So far the studies of genetics are inconclusive but some studies have interesting findings (like I heard that in 70% of twins where 1 guys is gay the other is gay) and the fact that around 1.5% of the male population is said to be gay - which is not an insignificant number of people (noting most all are born where the father and mother are straight). The other option of a person's spirit being a gay spirit - I don't know of any group that has looked into this adequately (certainly the right wing religions would never come up with any adequate study to determine whether this is correct or not). So - one is left with the fact that gay guys figure out that they are gay somehow (long and most likely painful process in most cases) and most all I have talked to say they were born that way (often after years of suppressing their feelings and trying to fit into the religious culture of their parents/church, even saying they chose to be this way when there was really no choice involved at all).
Comments give in some posts that gays should be separated from straight campers (bathrooms, etc) are totally laughable. Give all boys some credit and tell them they shouldn't play around. I've talked to a number of guys who played around as kids and are straight.
So - some more information for everyone to digest.
Three main studies are cited by "gay rights" activists in support of their argument2—Hamer's X-chromosome research, LeVay's study of the hypothalamus,4 and Bailey and Pillard's study of identical twins who were homosexuals. In all three cases, the researchers had a vested interest in obtaining a certain outcome because they were homosexuals themselves. More importantly, their studies did not stand up to scientific scrutiny by other researchers. Also, "the media typically do not explain the methodological flaws in these studies, and they typically oversimplify the results." There is no reliable evidence to date that homosexual behaviour is determined by a person's genes.
To the extent that biological or social factors may contribute to a person's bent toward homosexual behaviour, this does not excuse it. Some people have a strong bent towards stealing or abuse of alcohol, but they still choose to engage or not engage in this behaviour—the law rightly holds them accountable.
The final report of the BUWA task force states "that a person becomes a homosexual ultimately by choosing to be involved in same-sex activity . . . . This is in contrast to innate characteristics such as gender and ethnicity."7 The report affirms that "the Bible is clear that sin involves choice, and it unequivocally condemns homosexual behaviour as sin."
"the media typically do not explain the methodological flaws in these studies, and they typically oversimplify the results." There is no reliable evidence to date that homosexual behaviour is determined by a person's genes.
7LUCKY_SEVEN replies: Yes.
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So 7Lucky is bi but he chooses to be straight. That is a whole new issue going on. I guess 7lucky is saying that people are born bi-sexaul but choose to be gay or straight. I did not know that; I leaned something new about biology today. People are born bi.
One question though: what happens on a drunken night when you get a bit confused, could you do a 180 degree choice and act out on the homosexual part of your innate bi-sexuality. I mean what makes your choice of being straight strong enough not to become attracted to the same sex?
I think if gays want to be scouts let them start there own organization.
I don't want to have to worry about my son at camp or any other scout activity.
This is equal to telling all criminals which homes have guns. Telling all homosexuals that they are allowed to be around boys.
I'll say this again:
MOST PEDOPHILES ARE STRAIGHT; NOT GAY!
Homosexuality has nothing to do with pedophilia. Sexual violence and abuse is about power, domination, and control. It's not about sexual attraction.Paedophilia is all about power kinda like rape, people...POWER. Power over the vulnerable. Pedophiles are attracted, primarily, to children. The sex of those children matter less than that they are children. The sex of victim has more to do with access than sexual orientation. That's what gets pedophiles all fired up. And, they tend to be straight.
And who says so? For starters, The American Psychological Association (APA), a scientific and professional organization that represents psychologists in the United States.
For Goodness sake do some freakin research before you start blabbering garbage you obviously know nothing about.
The same reason girls aren't allowed to be around boys. Come on people this isn't about pedophiles it's about youth. An 8 year old boy can't use the lady's restroom. Why should an 8 year old homosexual boy use the men's restroom? Seriously we don't allow girls in Boy Scouts because boys and girls are different. We shouldn't allow homosexuals in boy scouts because they are different in much the same ways.