Dad, 4-year-old killed in Calif. shooting; 3 hurt

Inglewood emergency personnel respond to the scene where a man, wearing a mask, set a duplex on fire and then shot five members of a family on Saturday, Oct. 20, 2012 in Inglewood, Calif. / Chuck Bennett,AP Photo/The Daily Breeze

Updated 10:57 PM ET

INGLEWOOD, Calif. A manhunt was underway Saturday for a masked gunman who set fire to his backyard bungalow before shooting five members of a Southern California family, killing a father and his 4-year-old son, police said.

Desmond John Moses, 55, went on the early morning shooting rampage over a dispute with the victims, Inglewood Police Chief Mark Fronterotta told a news conference.

Investigators believed Moses wore a dark cap and a white painter's mask when he entered the home and fired 10 times.

The 30-year-old father was shielding two of his children when he was shot, Fronterotta said, and his 28-year-old wife was shot in both legs but managed to carry the wounded 4-year-old out of the house.

Paramedics found her collapsed on the street. The child, who suffered a bullet wound to the head, died at a hospital.

"This is a horrific crime. It's inexplicable why somebody would do this," the chief said.

Police said Moses lived behind the family on the same property, and had known them for years. Fronterotta would not discuss the nature of the dispute, but the property owner told the Los Angeles Times that Moses had been fighting an eviction notice and recently lost his case in court.

A woman who knew the family, Judy Castellanos, told the Times that the suspect was reclusive and would not let anyone look inside his home.

"He had been asked to leave by the end of this month," she told the newspaper.

After the shooting, police evacuated about 15 nearby houses to search for Moses.

Firefighters also sifted through Moses' badly burned bungalow to determine whether he may have returned after the shooting, but have not found a body.

"There's a lot of rubble, we have to use back hoes to do the job," Lt. James Madia, a police spokesman, said from the scene.

The victims' names were not released pending notification of relatives.

The mother remained hospitalized in critical but stable condition. Her 7-year-old daughter, who was shot in the chest, was in critical condition. A 6-year-old boy, who was shot in the pelvis, was in stable condition.

An 8-year-old boy escaped injury.

[magnumdr]

Our jails should be more like a real jail. Make these places that nobody would ever care to come back to or go to in the first place. I think that our Prisons should be more like a real prison and the people there have all of their rights taken away and do hard labor while there. If this were the case more people wouldn't come back to these places and maybe not commit any more crimes. And the kids and others on the streets would all be talking about what a bad place this is to be in. I think it would help some people think before committing any crimes that would put them in a prison!

[Think3Times]

wmdmia replies:

This nation is becoming one of the most gun violent places on earth, and more guns will not help.
_________________________________________

On on hand I agree with you, more guns will not help. On the other hand, there are already more guns than there are people. IMO controlling guns was maybe possible a long time ago, but I don't think it's possible now. What other solution is better than everyone having a gun? Yes you have crazies with guns, whether controlled or not. As well, the human mind can snap at any given moment given a powerful enough tragedy. At least if everyone was assumed to be carrying a gun, maybe others will be less likely to just pull one out, knowing that anyone from anywhere could simply fire back at you.

Honestly I dread living in a world like this... but what other option do we have?

[Mathion]

Inasmuch as you present your arguments in a relatively reasonable manner, you apparently undermined your own reasoning.

You said, "the human mind can snap at any given moment given a powerful enough tragedy"

Then you said, "if everyone was assumed to be carrying a gun, maybe others will be less likely to just pull one out".

If a mind has snapped, they're not giving a damn if someone shoots back.

Aside from the inane notion that someone can even begin to assume that "everyone would be carrying a gun" (Because that will never happen), the fact is gun battles are not straight-forwards.

Ever been in one? I have.

First you don't know where the shots came from (especially in areas where gunshots echo). You pull your gun, looking around for someone who is doing the shooting (and get shot because you haven't taken cover). This happens to everyone who isn't trained. They run, but they don't duck and cover.

But assume they're armed. They have to ID the shooter. Who's the shooter? It's you or him! Your heart is racing, adrenaline is pumping, your hands are shaking. You see someone with a gun and start shooting at them!

But it's just another armed citizen wondering who the shooter is. All of a sudden, YOU'RE the shooter and people are shooting at you. The gunman, if he's smart, will have tossed his gun, or hidden it, and will be acting like everyone else WITHOUT a gun.

I know how people react under fire. I know they are actually very inaccurate in their fire. And even if they're accurate, bystanders will get hurt who otherwise likely would not. Look at what happened at the Empire State building not too long ago. Cops killed the bad guy but 9 bystanders were wounded by ricochets and shrapnel.

People are inherently stupid. Half of all people are below average in IQ. Put guns in their hands, and you're going to see a lot more people dead and wounded from gunfire. The United States ranks near or at the top of per capita gun deaths and injuries world-wide.

We'd do much better if we made gun ownership a privilege than the right it is today.

[Think3Times]

Thank you for your input, thats what I've been waiting for all day.

[Smitty633]

I have heard more than once that "there is not a person on this planet that does not want to be an American"! Well, this one doesn't want to live in a country that kills thousands of each other at home each year and many more around the world while singing "Onward Christian Soldiers"!

[nirak2-2009]

Wrong!
I don't know anyone who wants to be an American. LOL
Very happy where we are!

[twmat311]

We really have to get off the pro vs anti gun issue and start looking at this from a mental health angle. When the weapons are obtained by the book, you have to look at what drives an adult to shoot children (let alone adults, regardless of the "reason" - i.e., warped excuse - to shoot them).

Though I agree "old and homeless" is scary, shooting a family isn't the answer - when he'd known them for years???

[Lerianis4]

TWMAT, when someone threatens you when you have a mental illness, you can slip into a 'you vs. them' kind of thinking and it doesn't matter if it's your own son or daughter..... bad things are going to happen.

This family sounds like they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[hypnotoad72]

Mental health, common civility ("do unto others"), and a slew of other issues.

Nobody wants to change the system for the better, though... watching Snooky, Bristol, Jerry, Maury, and Simon are far more fun...

[jonathan_will]

This is insane. A family tries to help this idiot and when they ask him to leave he executes everyone? And he will be protected when he gets to court? Wht kind of justice system are you guys running over there? You either give everyone a gun, or you bring back the death penalty. I see no other option.

[Lerianis4]

The death penalty will do NOTHING when most murderers are 'seeing red' or mentally ill, you dipwad!

I swear, every time something like this happens we get the nincompoops on here saying "BRING BACK THE DEATH PENALTY!" like it is some magical solution to all ills.

The freaking death penalty didn't stop anything when we still had it, why would it change anything now? In fact, NOW we have LESS murders per capita than we did when the death penalty was still on the books or widely applied.

[hypnotoad72]

How about giving everyone guns and bring back the death penalty? Nobody values life anymore these days either way...

[wikidlyinapt]

Its your lack of gun control that put the gun in his hands in the first place. Between all the shootings in America you are still primed to accept more fire-arms.
I'm baffled at the idiocy in this.

[Lerianis4]

No, it isn't. The person in question here could have easily built a homemade bomb to take out this family, it's not all that hard to do and there are numerous instruction manuals on the internet that explain in detail how to do so.

The question we should be asking here is "What are the circumstances that lead to this?"

I'm betting that if they hadn't tried to evict this guy, he wouldn't have done something like this AND that he had a severe mental illness that went untreated.

Par for the course for American society there.

[hypnotoad72]

Lerianis4 -

Agreed.

[payasyougo]

In other states, while the father was shielding the children the wife would have shot back. Too bad criminals ignore weapon laws when they plan on violating other laws.

[Lerianis4]

Agreed, Pay and Michael. If someone in this house, even one of the CHILDREN, had a weapon or knew where one was in the house, they could have stopped this man before he killed these two people and injured the rest.

[hypnotoad72]

Or Colorado... that state has a conceal and carry law as well...

Pity all the gun toting folks there weren't at that movie theater one day...

It's simplistic to say someone with a gun will go and kill the crazy person. The paperwork, questioning, eyewitnesses and veracity thereof, etc are all inconvenient issues that the "let's give everyone free ammo" crowd wants to believe in.

And even the trained gunmen can make a mistake...

But if everybody wants a police state, or pseudo-police state by everyone toting guns, that's fine by me...