Women slowly advance into Marine combat jobs

AP

(AP) WASHINGTON — There may be some anxiety from male Marines as female officers work their way into infantry and other combat jobs that historically have been open only to men, Gen. James F. Amos, the Marine Corps commandant, said Tuesday.

Amos said early steps to begin moving women into artillery, tank air defense and combat engineer units have been successful, but the more difficult tests lie ahead.

"Change doesn't come easy to the United States Marine Corps," Amos told an audience at the National Press Club. "But when it does, when it's rooted, it lasts forever. So I think we'll work our way through it."

A key challenge will take place next month as female Marine officers attend the grueling infantry officer school at the Marine Corps' Quantico, Va., base as part of an experiment to gauge whether women can handle the course's extreme physical and mental challenges. So far, two women have volunteered to go through the 13-week course, which historically sees attrition rates of 20 percent to 25 percent when only men are participating.

"I need to get past hyperbole and get past intuition and instincts, and I need to get facts," Amos said, adding that the Marines intend to maintain the same standards for men and women. "If you're going to be infantry officer, you will spend 13 weeks at Quantico going through some very, very difficult training. So that's the standard, the measure of an infantry officer in the Marine Corps."

Officials, he said, will evaluate the test, collect the data and then he will give his recommendation to Defense Secretary Leon Panetta.

The Pentagon in February announced that the military was formally opening up thousands of jobs to women in units closer to the front lines to better reflect the realities of modern warfare. Women already are fight on the front lines in Afghanistan, and they did the same in Iraq. The new rules will allow women to perform many of the jobs they already have been doing, but in smaller units that are closer to the fighting and were once considered too dangerous.

To say women are a minority in the Marine Corps is an understatement; of the roughly 200,000 Marines, 13,700 are female. So the integration will be slow and in small numbers.

By mid-October, 45 women Marine officers and staff non-commissioned officers will join various artillery, tank and combat engineer battalions across the country. And Amos said he met with the top leaders of the 19 battalions that could get female Marines and told them that they need to do this the right way and establish the proper command climate to give the women the opportunity to succeed.

He added that the Marine Corps also has sent out a survey to service members to collect their views on allowing women in the infantry. And officials are also setting up a series of physical tests to compare the strength of male and female officers and enlisted Marines.

A 1994 Pentagon policy prohibits women from being assigned to ground combat units below the brigade level. A brigade is roughly 3,500 troops split into several battalions of about 800 soldiers each. Historically, brigades were based farther from the front lines, and they often include top command and support staff, while battalions usually are in closer contact with the enemy.

Historically, women could not be formally assigned to those battalion-level jobs. But in the past decade the necessities of war propelled women into jobs such as medics, military police and intelligence officers, and they were sometimes attached — but not formally assigned — to battalions.

So while a woman couldn't be assigned as an infantryman in a battalion going out on patrol, she could fly the helicopter supporting the unit or move in to provide medical aid if troops were injured. The new rules will formally allow women to work in those jobs at the battalion level.

The new rules don't open up the Navy SEALs or the Army Delta Force to women, but some defense officials have said the military may eventually consider that.

In other comments, Amos defended the administrative punishments doled out to three Marines on Monday for their participation in a video that showed them urinating on the corpses of Taliban insurgents.

While there were no criminal charges, he said the discipline "was not a slap on the wrist." And he said additional Marines will also "be held accountable" for the incident, which triggered outrage among Afghans when it was revealed on YouTube earlier this year.

The actual administrative punishments have not been made public, but could include demotions, extra duty, forfeiture of pay or a letter in their file. The punishments also could stall any future advancement and end their military careers.

[daffy64]

"I need to get past hyperbole and get past intuition and instincts, and I need to get facts," Amos said, adding that the Marines intend to maintain the same standards for men and women. "If you're going to be infantry officer, you will spend 13 weeks at Quantico going through some very, very difficult training. So that's the standard, the measure of an infantry officer in the Marine Corps."

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The Canadian Army had the same idea when it started trying to integrate females into combat roles. Because 99.9% of women didn't have a chance of passing the physical standards, it was lowered drastically to suit them.

Seems the feminists don't really believe women are equal, but MUST have women doing anything men can do.

Fortunately, 98% of Canadian combat soldiers are still big tough men.

It's one thing to do some pushups in sneakers.

It's another to slog 70 lbs of gear up a mountain in Afghanistan.

[Marinesince59]

Welcome aboard ladies. We will need you if tax dodger mitt gets elected. He can't wait to invade Iran.

[Dancing-in-the-Streets]

The Election in 2008! : )
and........

The Election of 2012 : )

[endpcnow]

Though "They" won't admit it, I bet the standards of the infantry course will be lowered to accommodate the women. Whenever I served with coed army units I was surprised (kinda) at how much easier physical training was, how men were always chosen for the heavy lifting jobs and how discipline was more lax around women.

[Dancing-in-the-Streets]

And officials are also setting up a series of physical tests to compare the strength of male and female officers and enlisted Marines.
------------------

I hope you put my niece thru those physical tests to compare! She shows more physical endurance than any male I've seen! : )

[Dancing-in-the-Streets]

She's being tested as we speak in Afghanistan.
I pray God watches over her and the rest of our troops.

[riptide213]

Create a new gender neutral national "blueprint" in basic law before shifting DoD policy to create PC agenda triumph stories.

First authentic change regarding gender free combat roles must be to modernize outdated US Selective Service "draft" laws to have all males and females meeting age criteria to be registered for national call up.

Once this unfair administrative "draft" inequity barrier is removed, then proceed to offer more actual combat roles to deserving members of either gender who meet duty standards.

Leaders need to step up to challenges not just sidestep core issues of genuine culture change to offer easy way out feel good stories for select groups.

[AOCGUY]

I agree that having registration for the selective service limited only to males is unfair and should be changed one must also remember that the last person to be "drafted" was in 1971. I remember because I was one of those "lucky" last draftees.

As for women serving in traditionally all male MOS, if they can meet the standards as wriiten then I am all for it. I have served with women in the military including combat and they performed as well and sometimes better than their male counterparts.

[joe1022joe]

This is Obama's doing. Time to remove him from office before he can do any more damage than he has already done.

[Dancing-in-the-Streets]

Obama??? This is the "doing" of these women themselves! Obama has nothing whatsoever to do with my nieces strength, endurance, and willingness to serve her country! Heck she probably won't even be voting for him!

[Former_Marine_Sgt]

Joe - stuff the blame up your _____ (your choice). This has nothing to do with Obama, it's been slowly happening over the last 20 years. you gonna blame every president or are you going to pull a normal right wing move and blame only the current democrat for things that have been happening for years?

MANY countries let women fight like this. We're finally catching up to where the rest of the world advanced to - about 20 years behind everyone else.

And I would be honored to fight next to any man or woman who met the physical, mental and training standards required to be a combat Marine. I don't give a damm if it's he, she or it fighting next to me as long as I know he/she/it has my back when the stuff hits the fan.

Troglydite thinking like yours is pathetic - Women aren't some special and fragile thing - they are our equals. You need to advance to the 21st century and stop living in victorian times where women were kept underfood and considered too fragile to even think about something difficult.

[nor-one]

These are volunteers, they are needed because even with rock bottom standards they can't find enough men to fill the blanks. When anybody can see how little the 1% care or respect the service men in their job creating wars i8s it any wonder enrollment is down?

[Former_Marine_Sgt]

Sorry dude - you have no clue about the Marines.

There is no shortage of volunteers to join the Corps. Never has been, never will be.

This isn't about not having enough men. this is about advancing into the modern era and letting ANY capable person do the job.

And thinking that 'women aren't capable' belongs back in the victorian era, not in today's military. if a woman OR a man can meet the physical, mental and training requirements to fight on the front lines as a Marine, I'd be damm happy to be there with them.

[matt6052]

Wouldn't the integration of women into combat roles and higher ranks be more logical if they were already required by law to register for the draft and could potentially be drafted?

Remember, popular support for the mistaken invasion of Iraq included support from a group of citizens who have never experienced the reality of conscription at any level.

I do not understand how soldiers can respect any officer who believes that one type of citizen should not be required to serve the country. Historically, even old men and young boys can be conscripted, but women have never been forced to serve in any capacity. Shouldn't that change first?

[Rafterman11]

The British in WWII conscripted women. Today, there are about a dozen countries that conscript women (eg., Israel).

[matt6052]

The United States Marine Corps is not a part of the British Empire, nor is the United States iteslf. However the fact that the UK conscripted women in WW2 and the fact that Israel and China conscript women today shows that it is a perfectly legitimate policy for a country founded on equality.