Strength of case against Zimmerman questioned

(CBS News) Now that George Zimmerman is behind bars facing murder charges for shooting Trayvon Martin in Sanford, Fla. on Feb. 26, there are questions about just how strong a case prosecutors have against him.

Special prosecutor Angela Corey's affidavit outlines her case, saying, Zimmerman "profiled" Martin as a suspicious person, and became the aggressor when he "disregarded the police dispatcher" on this call.

Complete coverage of the Trayvon Martin case on CBS News

Corey said, "If (the) 'Stand Your Ground' (law) becomes an issue, we will fight it."

But many criminal trial lawyers in Orlando see nothing in the special prosecutor's affidavit that would convict Zimmerman.

Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law allows even the original aggressor in a fight to use deadly force - if that person becomes reasonably afraid of being killed or seriously hurt.

Trial lawyer Richard Hornsby has litigated 15 "Stand Your Ground" cases - none of them homicides - and won them all.

Hornsby told CBS News he thinks Corey's affidavit is more significant for what it leaves out than for what it includes.

"The moment George Zimmerman fired that shot is the key question in this entire case," Hornsby said. "Did he reasonably believe he had to fire that shot to defend himself? And the fact (Corey) completely left that out, begs the question, does she not have any evidence to refute his version of the events?"

A hearing next Friday will determine whether Zimmerman should be freed on bond.

(Jean Casarez, an attorney and correspondent for "In Session" on Tru-TV, discussed the case on CBS This Morning: Saturday." Watch her analysis in the video below.)

Judge Jessica Recksiedler might have to step aside from George Zimmerman's murder case. Her husband works in the same law firm as a CNN legal analyst. Mark O'Mara, Zimmerman's lawyer, will decide next week whether he sees that as a conflict.

Zimmerman attorney may ask judge to drop case

For Mark Strassmann's full report, watch the video in the player above.

[johnj2222]

I believe almost no one actually listened to the entire four minute Zimmerman-Dispatcher tape which ended within 30-60 seconds of the fight and shooting. Zimmerman's best witness is the dispatcher and best evidence is the tape which shows Zimmerman followed the dispatcher's TWO instructions exactly:

From the beginning, Zimmerman is sitting in his truck describing the suspects actions.

At 1:34 in the tape, the dispatcher tells Zimmerman "just let me know if he does anything else". Zimmerman continues passing information, including when the suspect passes by his truck (parked a few feet from the path Trayvon went down). Zimmerman never got out to confront the suspect. Trayvon then ran down the path and disappears. Zimmerman, still following the first instruction to keep the dispatcher informed, gets out of his truck to see where Trayvon went. The dispatcher, hearing Zimmerman leave the truck, tells him he doesn't have to do that (follow where the suspect went) AND ZIMMERMAN IMMEDIATELY STOPS AND SAYS "OK". This all takes about 10 seconds of jogging from when the truck door closes on the tape which brings Zimmerman right by the attack site.

They keep talking for about 2 more minutes and Zimmerman hangs up. Within 30-60 seconds of the hang up and near where Zimmerman stopped, the attack occurs.

THERE NEVER WAS ANY STALKING. Zimmerman just followed both of the dispatcher's instructions: First, to keep the dispatcher informed; and second, to not follow the suspect after he disappeared (to protect Zimmerman not the suspect).

There is amazing spin in the press. The dispatcher, in advising Zimmerman, WAS TRYING TO PROTECT THE BLOCK WATCHER FROM A POTENTIALLY VIOLENT SUSPECT WHO MIGHT TURN ON HIM. And that is exactly what appears to have happened when Trayvon, instead of going home about 250 ft further down the pathway, hid for about 2 minutes until the confrontation near where Zimmerman had stopped and was talking to the dispatcher.

[Flonight]

I listened and I agree!

[mick7744]

I have been under the impression that the phone tapes had been turned over to the FBI for analysis. That being the case, the Feds WILL determine whether it was George Zimmerman who was screaming for help or not. If it was not Zimmerman screaming for help...it must have been Trayvon Martin

If that is so...WHY was he screaming?

Perhaps because becoming aware that Zimmerman was armed and aiming his weapon at him...he was yelling for help in the hope that someone would come along, and by their mere presence, stop Zimmerman from shooting him to death...but no one came...and he is dead

That being the case...Zimmerman is a first degree murderer who should jump at the murder 2 charge. That being the case...Zimmerman clearly killed the kid AFTER Martin had stopped doing whatever attacking he may or may not have been doing....and that Zimmerman flat-out executed him as punishment for the beating he claims he took.

I've read the usual reich-wing Zimmerman apologists glibly dismissing the Florida newspaper's "expert" tape analysis, and claiming that a 48 match means almost a 50-50 chance that it's Zimmerman

THAT...IS...NOT...TRUE!

If the voice on the tape is PROVEN by the FBI to not be George Zimmerman's, than it MUST be Trayvon Martin's...unless of course if Zimmerman "suddenly remembers" that someone ELSE was there yelling for help...but mysteriously disappeared, and he just forgot about it

If that turns out to be a valid interpretation of the existing forensic evidence...of the provable FACTS...in a case that was over a month late being initially investigated......and not the stupid partisan conjecture posted here so often with "facts" that are not only plucked out of the void, but later mangled into weird shapes to fit a pre-determined point of view when they stop functioning properly (because of contradictory evidence)

If that turns out to be true...then George Zimmerman should count himself very fortunate indeed to have avoided riding the needle...

But I'm patient...I can wait to find out FOR SURE what happened...not all this, "Zimmerman said...Zimmerman said...but the other guy in the case is dead" (so we just have to take George's word and give him cred)

Right on page 1 of the crimestooper's handbook, it states that people who shoot other people to death very often lie about it later when talking with the police about how it happened.

Funny that no one in the Sanford PD ever read that part of the manual...

[Flonight]

What kind of screwed up logic is that? If there's a 48% chance that it's Zimmerman screaming there is NOT almost a 50/50 chance that it REALLY IS Zimmerman screaming but if they decide 48% isn't enough to prove it's Zimmerman then OF COURSE THERE MUST BE 100% chance that it's Martin?? without ANY COMPARISON?? Yeah I'm not too worried about George since the all the evidence against him is pretty similar to this.

[reality_sanity]

by Caustic_Polemicist April 14, 2012 5:43 PM EDT
@bettyVA

I'm sorry when a poster reads "WANTED DEAD OR ALIVE" with a 10 grand bounty I don't see how that is a "legal, citizen's arrest"

----

Sorry there is no bounty there were apologies, retractions and repudiations by many. You continue to THREATEN George's life more than the New Black Panthers by lying to keep this non-existent threat alive.

[reality_sanity]

by Caustic_Polemicist April 14, 2012 4:19 PM EDT
...
3) He followed him for a grand total of ~12 seconds

----

George pursued Trayvon for over 5 minutes -- his 911 call was 4 minutes in length and he was following before placing the 911 call. George was following for 1 minute after completing his 911 call before the shooting and the police arrived. In addition George pursued Trayvon long enough to be ID'ed and cause a retreat by Trayvon. Giving Trayvon and not George a self-defense claim under Florida's SYG law -- as Trayvon had more than a simple belief byt he had observed actual actions considered aggressive (stalking) under the law. According to any state laws I have seen (including those knowledgeable with Florida law) George is required to successfully disengage from his pursuit before he can establish a self-defense claim (Trayvon would have needed to cease his flight, reached a sanctuary such as his home, of in this case George would have had to cease pursuit for at least an equal amount of time as he spent in pursuit). Instead George completed his 911 call and spent the last minute hands free ready for confrontation in pursuit of Trayvon. Trayvon at the same time maintained an open phone call -- not an act of someone planning a confrontation to not have his hands free and invite a witness to the violence he is alleged to have planned bgt many posting about this event. According to one source the person calling for help as determined in a court of law has what is generally accepted as solid grounds for a self-defense claim. Forensic testing of the tapes will provide the identity of the person calling for help considering eyewitness testimony is inconclusive (it goes both ways) and is generally considered unreliable when forensic evidence with provable accuracy refutes it.

[pinkguns69]

Im in the streets with yall if hes convicted its time for us to march too the only thing I wait on is to see the evidence,and sad thing is even if Zimm is found not guilty he will still have to hide his whole life,the media has lied ,changed stories showed nothing but old pics of tray when any one has seen his twitter page knows hes freakin grown.FL Has had 170 shooting with stand your ground defense.and only 36 of the 170 where arrested so why is it so important now???I KNOW WHY!!!!!

[Flonight]

What's really sad is how the media has caused all this hatred between colors when there shouldn't be any. The pictures of Trayvon are old but also ALTERED so he appears younger, skinnier and without any facial hair. George's pictures are when he was about 75 pounds heavier but they were also ALTERED so he appears lighter; he is obviously a man of color!! WE HAVE BEEN DUPED AND WE NEED TO FIGHT BACK BY LEARNING THE TRUTH ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED THAT NIGHT AND WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE REPORTING SINCE THEN!!

[johngaltwho]

It would have been legally simpler if Trayvon had killed Zimmerman. THAT would have been an open and shut case of Stand Your Ground.

[johngaltwho]

REDRUM... REDRUM

[johngaltwho]

Zimmerman is Only partially protected by stand your ground. If he is found to be the aggressor (not a difficult argument given the phone evidence, then he has to exhaust all possible attempts to escape the situation before using deadly force. It will be a tough argument for him to make that he tried to run away, fight him off...

[tij123]

Zimmerman is not protected by Stand Your Ground. Trayvon did not attack him. Trayvon defended himself from Zimmerman attempt to not let Trayvon get away. If the court can prove that the cries for help in the 911 call are Trayvon's, then they have this in the bag. Zimmerman is guilty of second degree murder.

[ugacrew]

Zimmerman is protected by nothing. People in the streets await him regardless of what the courts say. Many base those experiences on the personal miscarriages of justice they or their loved ones have experienced. The prisoners await him regardless of what anybody says. Many will forever believe his father, a retired judge, along with the entire police department officials somehow obstructed justice because they failed to arrest him at least for a 24 hour holdover. The average black man is arrested for simple traffice violations. Finally, he has his own mindset to contend with. He will never be able to rid himself of the fear. Those of you who argue about what the evidence will prove, fail to realize that an apparent disparity in the initial execution of justice had already occurred here, and no amount of evidence at this late juncture will eradicate it. Black people know these disparities persist but are difficult to refute. This one is as blatant as a pie in the face and they will not accept it.

[rauckman]

@littleleers, you seem to forget that the lead detectective wanted to charge Zimmerman with manslaughter because he didn't beleive his story. I can assume the chief of police caved to political pressure from the procecutor. To the prosecutor, it wasn't an easy case to win under the SGY law so he just took George Zimmerman at his word that it was self-defense. He did not take into account evidence that would have poked holes in his self defense claim.

[johngaltwho]

Might have been a little less difficult case if they had actually investigated it. They failed to interview the girl who was on the phone with Martin throughout the ordeal.

[tij123]

If you are trying to prove that Trayvon is a gang member or a thug, it does not appear that the parents raised Trayvon as a thug. Most hiphop artists look like thugs but they are not either. They are just artists trying to entertain people.

[DAKOTALEE13]

Here is a short list of Hip hop and rap artist that have been in jail/prison.Some of them are still there.I put some of your female role models in there to.Cool C, DMX, Lil Kim, TI, C-Murder, Shyne, Mistical, Lil Wayne, ODB, Lil Boosie, Cassidy, Akon, Bobby Brown, Flesh & Bone, Prodigy, Gucci Mane, Remy Ma, Pimp C, Da Brat, Beanie Segel. I could go on but that would take to long.

[tij123]

And they all deserve to be shot dead, right?

[Esus927]

I just have a feeling that this is the Duke lacrosse circus all over again.

[ugacrew]

They don't have the money that Duke lacross had and therefore must deal with the issue.