PSU's McQueary: I saw sex abuse, told Paterno
Penn State assistant football coach Mike McQueary, right, arrives at Dauphin County Court surrounded by heavy security Friday, Dec 16, 2011, in Harrisburg, Pa. / AP Photo/Bradley C Bower
Updated 3:54 p.m. ET
HARRISBURG, Pa. - A Penn State assistant football coach testified Friday that he believes he saw former assistant coach Jerry Sandusky molesting a boy on campus and that he fully conveyed what he had seen to two Penn State administrators.
Mike McQueary, speaking for the first time in public about the 2002 encounter in a Penn State locker room, said he believes that Sandusky was attacking the child with his hands around the boy's waist but said he wasn't 100 percent sure it was intercourse.
McQueary took the stand Friday morning in a Pennsylvania courtroom during a preliminary hearing for university officials Tim Curley and Gary Schultz, who are accused of lying to a grand jury about what McQueary told them.
District Judge William C. Wenner ruled late Friday that prosecutors do have probable cause to move forward with the cases against Curley and Schultz -- a decision that widely expected.
But the decision came at the end of a day of new testimony in the scandal that rocked Penn State University, it's football program, and the surrounding community. McQueary gave his first formal public statements and former coach Joe Paterno's testimony to a grand jury was read into the public record for the first time
Special Section: The Penn State Scandal
McQueary's story is central to the case against Curley and Schultz. They testified to the grand jury that McQueary never relayed the seriousness of what he saw. The officials, and Penn State coach Joe Paterno, have been criticized for never telling police about the 2002 allegation. Prosecutors say Sandusky continued to abuse boys for six more years.
The lawyers for Curley and Schultz say the men are innocent.
McQueary spoke in a clear, firm and forceful voice, taking frequent sips of water during his two-hour testimony, reports CBS News investigative producer Pat Milton from inside the courtroom.
McQueary said he had stopped by a campus football locker room to drop off a pair of sneakers in the spring of 2002 when he heard slapping sounds in a shower and happened upon Sandusky and the boy.
He said Sandusky was behind the boy he estimated to be 10 or 12 years old, with his hands wrapped around the boy's waist. He said the boy was facing a wall, with his hands on it.
McQueary said he has never described what he saw as anal rape or anal intercourse and couldn't see Sandusky's genitals, but that "it was very clear that it looked like there was intercourse going on."
In its report last month, the grand jury summarized McQueary's testimony as saying he "saw a naked boy ... with his hands up against the wall, being subjected to anal intercourse by a naked Sandusky."
McQueary: "Act was over" so I didn't go to copsPaterno to grand jury: I didn't press for details
Under cross examination by an attorney for Curley, McQueary reiterated that he had not seen Sandusky penetrating or fondling the boy but was nearly certain they were having intercourse because the two were standing so close and Sandusky's arms were wrapped around the youth.
He said he peeked into the shower several times and that the last time he looked in, Sandusky and the boy had separated. He said he didn't say anything, but "I know they saw me. They looked directly in my eye, both of them."
McQueary said the entire encounter — from when he first entered the locker room to when he retreated to his office — lasted about 45 seconds.
McQueary said he reported what he saw to Paterno but never went to police.
He said he did not give Paterno explicit details of what he believed he'd seen, saying he wouldn't have used terms like sodomy or anal intercourse out of respect for the longtime coach.
He said Paterno told him he'd "done the right thing" by reporting the encounter. The head coach appeared shocked and saddened and slumped back in his chair, McQueary said.
Paterno told McQueary he would talk to others about what he'd reported.
Nine or 10 days later, McQueary said he met with Curley and Schultz and told them he'd seen Sandusky and a boy, both naked, in the shower after hearing skin-on-skin slapping sounds.
Lawyer explains why Sandusky showered with boys
Lawyer: Sandusky case a "fight to the death"
"I told them that I saw Jerry in the showers with a young boy and that what I had seen was extremely sexual and over the lines and it was wrong," McQueary said. "I would have described that it was extremely sexual and I thought that some kind of intercourse was going on."
McQueary said he was left with the impression both men took his report seriously. When asked why he didn't go to police, he referenced Schultz's position as a vice president at the university who had overseen the campus police
"I thought I was talking to the head of the police, to be frank with you," he said. "In my mind it was like speaking to a (district attorney). It was someone who police reported to and would know what to do with it."
Under cross-examination, McQueary said he considered what he saw a crime but didn't call police because "it was delicate in nature."
"I tried to use my best judgment," he said. "I was sure the act was over." He said he never tried to find the boy.
Later, Thomas Harmon, the former chief of the Penn State police department, said Schultz didn't tell him about the shower allegation.
Who's who in the Penn State child sex abuse scandal
Paterno, Schultz and Curley didn't testify, but Judge Wenner read their grand jury testimony from January in weighing the case. The testimony was expected to be read into the record Friday afternoon.
Sandusky says he is innocent of more than 50 charges stemming from what authorities say were sexual assaults over 12 years on 10 boys in his home, on Penn State property and elsewhere. The scandal has provoked strong criticism that Penn State officials didn't do enough to stop Sandusky, and prompted the departures of Hall of Fame football coach Joe Paterno and the school's longtime president, Graham Spanier.
Sandusky on Tuesday waived his preliminary hearing at the last minute. His lawyer said he was concerned the proceeding would be too one-sided and that prosecutors had agreed not to seek a bail increase.
Curley, 57, Penn State's athletic director, was placed on leave by the university after his arrest. Schultz, 62, returned to retirement after spending about four decades at the school, most recently as senior vice president for business and finance, and treasurer.
Meanwhile, The Patriot-News of Harrisburg has reported that McQueary's story changed when speaking in 2002 to Dr. Jonathan Dranov, a family friend. The newspaper report cited a source said to be familiar with Dranov's testimony.
"If this information is true, and we believe it is, it would be powerful, exculpatory evidence and the charges against our clients should be dismissed," Caroline Roberto, a lawyer for Curley, and Tom Farrell, the attorney representing Schultz, said in their statement.
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If McQueary tells the truth, other witnesses will support his testimony, for sure
"au revoir"
"The things most people want to know about are usually none of their business."
"`Then you should say what you mean,' the March Hare went on. `I do,' Alice hastily replied; `at least - at least I mean what I say - that's the same thing, you know.'"
"I can't go back to yesterday - because I was a different person then."
"Sentence first, verdict afterwards."
"`I'll be judge, I'll be jury,' said cunning old Fury: / `I'll try the whole cause, and condemn you to death.'"
Although eye-witness testimony may be useful, I suggest that what we, the public, not the jury, know of Mr McQueary's testimony is insufficient to convict Mr Sandusky of alleged sodomy. It will be interesting to hear the alleged victim's testimony.
Still, as I pointed out in the case of "Roshomon," can any of us be certain beyond a reasonable doubt what happened. Or might our opinion be influenced by the number of boys with whom Mr Sandusky is alleged to have inappropriate sexual conduct?
Difficult enough to be juror in an alleged rape case; this one is a doozy. Would Hope, Idaho, be a better venue to find an unbiased jury?
And, given this statement "He said he did not give Paterno explicit details of what he believed he'd seen" is it not time to cut JoePa some slack? He did -nothing- wrong.
Ire is better directed at McQueary and the PSU executive in charge of the police, both of whom failed that child in the extreme.
If you see a child being sexually abused - you call the cops RIGHT THEN and report it.
There is absolutely no excuse for any other reaction (other than stopping the sexual abuse itself if one can do it safely without risking your own life).
Any other response (waiting 9 or 10 days to tell the coach and the cops) is blatantly supporting the criminal act of sexual abuse.
This clown needs to go to jail for becoming a part of a criminal conspiracy by the sheer fact he did nothing to stop it.
Every single one of these guys starting with this red-headed ***** McCreary, to Paterno, Curley & Mo (whoever he is) were each responsible for reporting Sandusky's abusive rape acts to the police.
I don't care what a school's protocol is - I'm SO tired of this chain of command cr*p. Every single person on this earth is responsible to report illicit, abusive acts against children, sexual or not.
McCreary should have stayed in that locker room so both the little abusued boy & Sandusky could hear him make that phone call to Penn St Police and WAIT for them to show up. That way the police would have & could have nailed Sandusky right there standing naked in front of them, God, and that little boy. THIS is what should have happened!
Whether you have children of your own or not, WE are the adult human beings. WE are here to protect each and every little child. Where is our ethics and responsibilites to our world's innocent babies and children?
Mike McQueary did what he should have done - the failure is not his - it's Paterno, Curley and Mo - I mean that other guy, and their boss - who stopped the story dead in its tracks - on PURPOSE.
C'mon, Even if McQueary didn't describe in precise, gory detail for them what he saw - What on Earth exactly is there about "EXTREMELY SEXUAL" that wasn't an alarming enough description for them to actually act upon, hmm? No, the AXIS OF EVIL that is Curley, Mo - I mean that other guy and whatsis name, their boss - is where fault lies. String 'em up, I say.
If I were one of the prosecutors (listen up) I'd be checking those three perverts for kiddie porn on their hard drives and any membership in the men and boys club, if you know what I mean. I wouldn't be surprised, I'm just sayin' -
I can't stop thinking about that little boy who was in the shower at 9 o'clock at night, that night, alone with Sandusky, with no one else around. What happened to him that night after McQueary left them? Did Sandusky stay away from him after that, or continue to abuse him? How has he coped since then? Where is that young man now? He should be around 18 to 20 yrs old.
That young man has to be found. I want to know he's safe. I also want him to Nail Sandusky Right Back but good. I want the frightened little boy that that young man still carries - to finally have his day in court. If he's watching all this, I wish to God he'd come forward.