Mom denied food stamps shoots kids, kills self

Crime Scene tape is posted at the main entrance to the Texas Health and Human Services Offices in Laredo, Texas, Tuesday, Dec., 6, 2011. / AP Photo/The Laredo Morning Times, Cuate Santos

SAN ANTONIO - A Texas woman who for months was unable to qualify for food stamps pulled a gun in a state welfare office and held a seven-hour standoff with police that ended with her shooting her two children before killing herself, officials said Tuesday.

The 10-year-old boy and 12-year-old girl remained in critical condition Tuesday. Authorities identified the mother as Rachelle Grimmer, 38, and children Ramie and Timothy.

When the family entered the office on Monday shortly before it closed, Grimmer asked to speak to a new caseworker, and not the one whom she worked with before, Texas Department of Health and Human Services spokeswoman Stephanie Goodman said.

Grimmer was taken to a private room to discuss her case, then she revealed a gun and the standoff began, Goodman said.

Police negotiators stayed on the phone with Grimmer throughout the evening, but she kept hanging up, Laredo police investigator Joe Baeza said. She allegedly told negotiators about a litany of complaints against state and federal government agencies.

Grimmer let a supervisor go unharmed around 7:45 but stayed inside the office with her children. After hanging up the phone around 11:45, police heard three shots, and a riot police team entered the building. Inside, they found Grimmer's body and her two wounded children.

The children were "very critical" and unconscious, Baeza said.

Goodman said it's not unusual for caseworkers to confront angry or confused benefit-seekers, but that it's very rare for a situation to escalate to violence.

Baeza said Grimmer had recently moved to the border city from Ohio.

Grimmer first applied for food stamps in July but was denied because she didn't turn in enough information, Goodman said. She said it wasn't immediately clear what information was missing.

"We were still waiting, and if we had that, I don't know if she would still qualify or not," Goodman said.

Goodman didn't know whether Grimmer had a job, or whether her children were covered under Medicaid or the state children's health insurance program.

The family's move from Ohio may have complicated Grimmer's application if the family had no Texas records the agency could check electronically, Goodman said.

State welfare offices have come under scrutiny in the past for being overburdened, but Goodman said the agency has made significant progress in the past three years. She said wait times are shorter, and that Grimmer was scheduled for her initial interview just one day after applying. Grimmer didn't make the appointment, she said.

[wth_moments]

Before jumping to conclusion, please realize

1. There is no information in this article relating to the mental health of the mother

2. While we comment on how people don't obey some rules, laws, and regulations...you cannot say when it's OK not to obey other rules, laws, and regulations

3. No where on this article did it say the case worker was ignoring and not trying to help. It did mention an attempt for communication.

4. No where on this article did it say the mother was some lazy crack head

As sad as this story was, patience and cooperation was needed from both parties. Pointing fingers to either party is ridiculous. Also, the unfortunate truth is there is way more people seeking government assistance than there is resources (both human and monetary)to distribute.

[truthtorpedo]

I feel like crying in anger, because this is exactly what happened to us in Texas, I had no job and our kids teeth needed attention especially the 3 year old , I paid $400 out of my pocket but it required another $500 to fix, do you know how hard it is to watch your kids teeth rot in slow motion, while you get rejected by the mean monsters who dont even care, I wish this woman never had to do this, but i know exactly how she felt, she should have shot each and every one of those workers who act like mini Gods because of the little power they have, rot in hell you government workers, because thats where you gonna end up.

[itsallmalarky]

Wow. I'd hate to rely on the government to the point I'd shoot my kids and myself, rather than allow them to make me starve to death. How sad.

[technocoffee]

...I feel for the children, not much for the "mother". Sounds like she had a "litany of complaints" against government agencies because she's been working them, so to speak; the closest thing to an actual job she ever had. NO handouts for able-bodied baby makers who drop out of school in their teens OR bail-outs for multi-million dollar companies who cheated their own selves bankrupt. ONLY very ill or very handicapped people should get aid--and Medicaid should only be for WORKING American citizens (or those who are over 65 & have worked) who have no insurance. They deserve it since they've paid into the system.

[sweetcakesmaria]

tech you sure sound as if you know a lot about this woman. You're not the father of her children are you???

[truthtorpedo]

Yeah but you're perfectly fine for $Billions to go towards fatcat friends of George Bush and Haliburton for the fake wars they start...you are a disgusting person making fun of a womans tragedy, do you think killing oneself and children is a light thing to do?

[six1seven]

From a hostage standpoint, this could have been resolved very easily:

1. Be apologetic, be polite/
2. Tell Grimmer she will be guaranteed food stamps.
3. Draft letter with official signature indicating she has food stamps
4. Explain that she must release her kids, then someone will come in with the letter for her to review.
5. Bring her letter. Situation over.

Case closed, no shootings, no loss of life.

[RarianRakista]

That would presume people in Texas are capable of human emotions like empathy.

[minnieMouser]

This is a sign of the times. And a little study of history would tell you that when things get this bad change is inevitable.

[Zann-Zel]

George you missed her point.
Her point was when the Economy and government get so bad as to cause murder & suicide.....Change is inevitable - meaning a Change in Society or Government is ineveitable.

[truthtorpedo]

Problem is, there is no knight on the horizon, just lots of republican hogs to make things even worse. We are recovering from Swine numero uno Bushs 8 years if you remember.

[DenverBroncofan]

Only one solutiuon...stop welfare altogether

[Zann-Zel]

You might wanna hide all the guns first.

[Arima0206]

It's obvious that you have never had the misfortune of being in a position to need assistance. Good for you. However, don't sit up on your high horse and make judgements on others who may need help. I am a 73 year old woman who just went through hell w/ the office of MassHealth in Massachusetts. They sent me notice that my Part B Medicare would no longer be paid by them and that I would have it deducted from my montly SS check. My paper work was in on time and they just hadn't gotten around to processing it. Two days and more hours than I can count on the phone....lost track of the number of people who I spoke w/ all of whom could do nothing. Finally, yesterday a.m. found a woman who knew what she was doing and will be reinstated. The frustration and terror I felt was overwhelming. This woman was at the end of her rope, as many of us are, and felt that her children would be better off dead rather than have to starve.
Count your blessing, DenverBroncoFan and thank the good Lord that you can sit in your overstuffed chair, drinking your beer, eating your pizza and watching your stupid football games! You have no clue what life is like for those of us who have worked their ***** off for over 40 years only to be dragged around and made to feel like less of a person by these government workers.
I hope your team loses every single damned game!!!

[Ceres6]

EmpireGeorge said: "maybe she earned too much money ? I know this sounds cold, but something drove her to kill over food stamps"
One hundred years can pass and you will never get the picture. For people like you it is impossible to think that probably she did not want to starve to death with her two children. As long as we have CEOs and executives making millions of dollars each month, who cares if others suffer.

[Zann-Zel]

Should CEOs salaries go up 250% while workers salaries go Down 6% ???

Are the CEOs of today REALLY worth 256% more than they used to be?

[Zann-Zel]

Sure he took the profits up 256% - BY OUTSOURCING THE FRICKEN AMERICAN JOBS!!!!!!!

Does he deserve a pay increase for that - Hell NO!

[jpugh4874]

I really cried for this family today after my daughter told me to read the story.The system always think you do not need help.They think everyone is trying to get over on the system.I feel sorry for the kids and the mom who had to resort to this.
I am the mother of 6 kids ages 24 years old to 3 years old.Two are in college,one in US Army.I still have two at home.We recently moved to Orlando,Fl with my older kids that are in College here.
It has been a struggle trying to get back on my feet after leaving Tallahassee,Fl.But i would never want to harm myself or my kids it did get a little rough GOD YOU KNOW.I did cry alot because if you are not used to being this way and depending on other to provide for you and your kids its hard.I applied for benefits in central Florida they do not giveyou all theinformation you need to get your benefits started,they tell you once you are denied.THis has been an ongoing process for me since August 16,2011.
Thank God for Finanicial aid.But i know there are alot of people that can not depend on going back to school.Thats why education is the key.Stay in school or get that GED.
Do not give up.I feel sorry for the mom who could not get the help that was need.But one thing about Florida they will give you Food stamps the first month you apply and give you a chance to come up with other paper work.

[Rye27]

It really is sad. Her living conditions weren't the best, hell they were horrible. She had to cook outside in the fire! This lady had to go to the lake and fish, just for her kids to have something to eat. But still it doesn't justify her shooting her kids.

[BigMykul]

by vielmann December 6, 2011 8:04 PM EST
I have a feeling that I know exactly what this woman was going through. Here in California, they have cut back on people who handle unemployment insurance. So bad that if there is any problem, your money can be held up for months. For example, a woman was laid off for 6th months, but it was determined that because she works in childcare, she's not eligible for unemployment insurance. But of course she is. Regardless, she is now being held up in weeks and weeks of BS from the state about a hearing and such.
____________________________________________________________________
In Texas, your eligibility for Unemployment compensation is determined by previous employers. At least for the quarter that you are claiming on. If one of them decides that you should not get it, you will be denied and given a chance to appeal at a hearing.