Is Stand Your Ground to blame for another teen's death?

(CBS News) JACKSONVILLE, Fla. -- Ron Davis got the call every parent dreads last November. His 17-year-old son Jordan had been shot twice in the parking lot of a gas station.

Ron Davis

/ CBS News

"They pulled the sheet up to his neck 'cause they didn't want me to see the gunshot wound," Davis says. "And I went over and hugged my son and kissed my son, and I said goodbye to my son."

Police say Jordan Davis was in a car with three other teens when 45-year-old Michael Dunn demanded they lower their music. An argument began. Dunn told police he thought the teens had a shotgun, so he pulled out his handgun and fired eight or nine shots. Jordan Davis was killed.

Dunn claimed self-defense under Florida's Stand Your Ground law. Police say the teens were unarmed.

Jordan Davis

Ron Davis says he doesn't believe Dunn would have shot Jordan if the law did not exist.

Twenty-seven states have Stand Your Ground laws; four are considering changes, including Florida.

Few self-defense laws changed in year since Trayvon Martin death
Trayvon Martin shooting: One year later
Trayvon Martin's parents, supporters, to attend candlelight vigil in NYC

State Representative Dennis Baxley helped write Florida's law and was part of a governor's task force which reviewed it. They recommended no changes.

Florida State Representative Dennis Baxley

/ CBS News

"We should stand beside law-abiding citizens," Baxley says. "They should not be treated as a criminal if they're doing something positive, which is stopping a violent act from occurring."

Since 2005, the number of violent crimes in Florida has dropped 22 percent. But the state's number of deaths classified as "justifiable homicides" involving civilian shooters more than doubled, from 18 in 2005 to 40 in 2010.

"There are going to be times with close calls near the foul line -- is it in or is it out? Who's the assailant and who's the victim?" Baxley says.

Michael Dunn pleaded not guilty to first-degree murder in the gas station shooting. When his trial begins sometime next year, Ron Davis plans to be in court every day.

[DickSpeedwacker]

Please don't be racist and so angry,
But,You must consider the truth
in any attack, like a Bank Robbery
the teller is being threatened with "DEATH"
from a robber handing her a simple note
that says -"give me the money"or else"
No weapon is needed, or shown, just implied to commit the felony of bank robbery.
just the threat,..
the mere words of -" IL shoot you "
is enough to put the fear of death into Dunn, the Police, a home owner
a parent, or anyone else facing a car load of gangstas.

He cannot possibly know how many weapons are in the Teens car
and that is irrelevant anyway.
he reacted to the threat of Death.

the "Fear" of being murdered.
The search for incriminating weapons later is not a defense to the threat of death implied by the teens.
Show us the knife OJ used to cut off his wife's head.
or the box cutter used to threaten the pilot to fly the 911 jets into the towers.
These weapons or lack of them later does not establish "innocence" of threatening to kill
the victim.

[Kablooy]

The stand your ground law is to protect people who are attacked. It's not to protect people like Dunn who "think" somebody in a car has a shotgun and then uses deadly force. Don't blame a good law for the actions of a fool. If one of those kids had stepped out of the vehicle "with" a shotgun and pointed it at Dunn then Dunn would have a right to use deadly force.

[moonglow525]

Exactly right, Kablooy. There is nothing wrong with the stand your ground law. It protects you at home, at work and your car when attacked. The problem is its interpretation. Some how people think they can just step up to someone and pull the trigger. That's murder.

They're still playing around with the Trayvon Martin murder case a year after he was murdered by wannabe rent-a-cop George Zimmerman Trayvon was black teen, unarmed and followed by Zimmerman, who was told by police to stop following him. He kept following him any way. Zimmerman was the aggressor and is using the stand your ground law as his defense. Doesn't work like that.

[mtset]

The law is not to blame. If people misuse the law, they are culpable. However, people have a right, for example, to defend themselves from black-racist flash mobs.

[AttyFAM]

This blog is the place to come if you have any doubts that racism, bigotry and hatred have lost any of their vitality in America. Yes, the neanderthals who are posting here prove beyond any scientific doubt that they are bigots and proud to show off their bigotry - anonymously, of course, using the internet equivalent of white sheets. America, the last refuge of the bigot.

[Mr_Haney]

WHAT is a bigot ???

Someone who is INTOLERANT of vile, filthy, racist, vulgar rap "music" being blared at them while they're going about their business, not bothering anyone.

If ANYBODY, black OR white, subjects me to an audial assault there WILL be trouble.

I don't drive around with Johnny Rebel blaring COONTOWN and I won't tolerate that g*d d*mn vile rap "music" screaming at me either.

[Mr_Haney]

WHAT is a bigot ???

Someone who is INTOLERANT of vile, filthy, racist, vulgar rap "music" being blared at them while they're going about their business, not bothering anyone.

If ANYBODY, black OR white, subjects me to an audial assault there WILL be trouble.

I don't drive around with Johnny Rebel blaring C**NTOWN and I won't tolerate that g*d d*mn vile rap "music" screaming at me either.

[AttyFAM]

Mr. Haney

You have some issues.

[Mr_Haney]

You play that race card like a pro.

And who can blame you, it's so handy.

For a liberal it's like a swiss army knife or a leatherman.

It can be used to slash your opponents...to bludgeon them...or, when your arguments are weak and flaccid, it becomes a useful crutch to prop up your tired, discredited assertions.

[Bojax39]

"Police say the teens were unarmed."

That they know of. Not saying saying these youth were or weren't armed, because I wasn't there. But it is awfully easy to ditch something when you don't want to be caught with it.

Dunn may be the Rambo type who thinks he can enforce his will at gunpoint. OR he may be somebody who was threatened with a shotgun and did what he thought expedient to protect himself.

This is what judges and courts are for.

But that won't matter to the media or anybody in these threads. We'll have people screaming about self defense and 2nd amendment and others chanting about race and gun control and the politicians will make hay, ramming through draconian feel good legislation while bicker.

And all the while the media will keep adding fuel and adding fuel because they want the money that can be had by exploiting tragedy.

[Beaner96]

I see no correlation to racism here, whatsoever!

[AttyFAM]

It would not be so easy to ditch it while a guy with a semiautomatic pistol is looking to shoot you. It would have had to be ditched nearby and I am sure the police made a thorough search to see if they could confirm the killer's defense. I rather think that the claim of a shotgun was an afterthought to try to justify the horrible act he just committed.

[andthetruthis]

Let me get this straight - They let one of their 'homies' get shot,even though this guy has a pistol,but,they have a shotgun.
Then,instead of getting some 'payback' with their shotgun,they drive away and dump it,then return,where the guy who shot their 'homie' is still standing!?
They drove away to save themselves from a homicidal,klan,dumb-@ss.
When they saw the police they felt it safe to return.
You see who the police believed.

[Beaner96]

Nonsense! I don't believe the homies' side one bit!

[ronjula-2012]

not to pursue,confront, or provoke potential suspects.Section 30.60 and
Section 166.0485

[ronjula-2012]

first of all dunn had no right to tell anyone to turn down their sounds(music).Secondly,there are no laws about how high a person can play their music.This fool committed murder,and he'll pay the cost of taking another person's life. These teenagers were midig their own business,and had every right to be at that service station.Dunn is a racist fool. Only I wish it had bee me who had approached about anything going on in my auto,and he had a weapon in his hand.

[Bojax39]

by ronjula-2012: "Only I wish it had bee me who had approached about anything going on in my auto,and he had a weapon in his hand."

Then what would you have done? Threatened him? With a shotgun perhaps?

Do you really think anybody had a "weapon in his hand"? I doubt weapons were evident otherwise why walk up to a car full of armed people to tell them off, or argue with an armed man standing by your car and risk getting shot?

[DickSpeedwacker]

This case is about the real Deadly Fear of being shot in the face with a Shotgun.

Why would you threaten a car full of black men?
What would happen to you?

Dunn is not a criminal, he is a responsible Father
threatened with DEATH.

The Black teens are not victims of a crime,
any more than a group of black teens robbing that Gas station would be.
Dunn survived their attack by shooting first
he would be dead otherwise.

Self Defense is not Murder.

[darwufche]

Except that there WAS NO SHOTGUN. Duh. Therefore, there is NO SELF DEFENSE.
There was nothing said in the article about them making an "attack", only an argument. Read it.

[bew13]

Dunn is absolutely the criminal in this case. No weapon of any kind was found in or near the victim's car. He was not in fear for his life; he was not being threatened in any way. He simply was a racist who thought he could make the rules for everyone else. 1st degree murder, or, at the very least, 2nd degree.

[AttyFAM]

Racist Dick, do you always play with your own private facts?

[andthetruthis]

You know what's wrong with all of your posts? Nobody,but nobody,has yet said - "Why didn't he call the cops".
To get to the point,people seem to believe this law gives everybody the right to play cop.
You don't need to back away,pull your cell,and call the rightful authority.
You can,without approval of the rest of us,become judge,jury.and executioner.
Bullsh@t.

[Beaner96]

When seconds count, police are only minutes away!