United Airlines, Japan's ANA replaced 787 batteries

(CBS News) WASHINGTON - CBS News has learned that more than just a few batteries went bad on Boeing's revolutionary Dreamliner 787s since the airliner began flying over a year ago.

Two overheated batteries, one leading to a fire, grounded the fleet earlier this month while investigators look into the cause. New details are a sign the problem was much more widespread.

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United Airlines had to replace multiple batteries on its fleet of six Dreamliners.

United has only been flying the Dreamliner since early November, so aviation safety experts say it's a red flag that more than one battery would already be having trouble.

Japan's All Nippon Airways issued a statement: "We had 10 cases of battery replacement due to technical issues in 2012. None of the 10 cases were considered a safety issue with no reporting requirements to the government, and no flights were cancelled or delayed. This frequency is the same level as 777 or other types of aircraft in recent years, and we do not see this number outstandingly high."

ANA said half the replaced batteries showed an unusually low charge, which could be important because when lithium ion batteries drain too low, recharging can create a fire risk.

The Dreamliner has been flying for ANA for over a year

On Wednesday, Boeing told CBS News that battery replacements are not "a result of safety concerns" but part of procedures that ensure faulty batteries aren't kept in circulation.

CBS News has also learned that FAA confirmed Boeing did not report to them the battery issues that led ANA and other carriers to swap them out, but notes that they were not required to as the issues did not meet the standard for "mandatory reporting."

[GeorgeKafantaris]

Since large lithium batteries are a headache -- if not inherently dangerous -- we have to look at alternatives. One is to go back to the heavier nickel-cadmium batteries.
Another is to use fuel cells. Fuel cells are now used in warehouse lifts and they supply unattended backup power to cell towers.
Why not use them in commercial airplanes? They have proved reliable for over a decade in our space Shuttle.
http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/shuttle/reference/shutref/orbiter/eps/pwrplants.html
What about cost? With $16,000 for a lithium battery, cost is relative. Moreover, fuel cells are now a sixth of what they were five years ago.
What about the Hindenburg?
Those flames etched in our minds came from the fresh paint on the tarp. Hydrogen itself burns colorless, last about a second, and the flames go straight up.
But where would we store the hydrogen? In tanks of the type now used in fuel cell cars -- and they can be refilled every time the plane refuels.
Or we could go with low pressure, though heavier, metal hydride tanks. This could eventually lead to our use of hydrides as artificial muscles -- to operate the plane's wings, brakes and landing gear. Metal hydrides can do this easily by us merely changing the current of the heating element inside the tank.
http://news.discovery.com/tech/biotechnology/artificial-muscle-hydrogen-artificial.htm

[obicera1]

Ease down people. The battery problem will be understood and fixed. Right now everyone involved is just trying to cover their butts.

[bobhobbs]

HOW ABOUT PRESSURE TESTS ON LITHIUM BATTERIES?
ANYONE CHECK LI CHARGING CYCLES DURING PRESSURE CHANGES FROM ZERO TO 50K FEET?

[pinetreewest]

So a $16,000 battery is grounding the entire 787 fleet. This is beginning to feel a bit like a $200 o-ring failure blowing up a space shuttle, which was simply really bad engineering. 40 seats filled at $400 a piece would pay for a battery. Obviously they were trying to save weight more than money but what a dumb thing to have screwed up. If you think further, an aircraft battery has a pretty cushy life compared to a car battery in a hybrid or all electric vehicle. Main aircraft batteries have to put out peak power only for a short while to spin up the compressor blades of the Auxiliary Power Unit and then settle back into charge mode. A car battery has to operate at peak power much, much longer and much, much more often, under much, much harsher conditions on a much, much, smaller profit margin for the prime manufacturer. There is something fishy in the 787 engineering going on.

[jdlaughead]

Next will be those composite bird wings, no way they can stand all that flex of 26 feet. They look like a big "U" when the plane flys.