Hard Measures: Ex-CIA head defends post-9/11 tactics

Lesley Stahl: But I mean, these were enhanced interrogation techniques. Other people call it torture.This was-- this wasn't benign in any-- any sense of the word.

Jose Rodriguez: I'm not trying to say that they were benign. But the problem is here is that people don't understand that this program was not about hurting anybody. This program was about instilling a sense of hopelessness and despair on the terrorist, on the detainee, so that he would conclude on his own that he was better off cooperating with us.

He says once Abu Zubaydah became compliant, the harsh treatment stopped and he became a fountain of information. But the FBI interrogators remember it differently.

Lesley Stahl: In fact, what they say is everything important that he gave up, he gave up to them before the harsher interrogation techniques kicked in.

Jose Rodriguez: Well, that is just not true. It's not true.

Lesley Stahl: Well, now they say that. And you say, "It's not true." What am I supposed to think? I don't know.

The FBI and CIA disagree and it's impossible for us to resolve the argument because details of the interrogations remain classified. But what about the fact that detainees will say anything to stop the pain.

Lesley Stahl: Here's something that was told to me. Abu Zubaydah's stories sent the CIA around the globe. Not a single plot was foiled. We spent millions chasing phantoms.

Jose Rodriguez: Bullshit. He gave us a road map that allowed us to capture a bunch of Al Qaeda senior leaders.

Among those leaders: Khalid Sheik Mohammed. Details of his interrogation and what he told the CIA. About Osama bin Laden, next.

The CIA had the use of a fleet of special aircraft to spirit detainees to its web of black sites across the globe. They were knocked out with sedatives during the flights and upon arrival had their heads and beards shaved and they were placed in sterile underground cells, with only an arrow painted on the floor pointing to Mecca.

In total, the CIA picked up about 100 detainees, subjected 75 of them to harsh interrogation techniques - three of them to waterboarding, including Khalid Sheikh Mohammed - or KSM, the mastermind of 9/11. When KSM was first captured in 2003, he was in no mood to talk.

Jose Rodriguez: Oh, he was not going to talk. I mean, Khalid Sheik Mohammed is one of the toughest killers out there.

Lesley Stahl: I heard he was brilliant.

Jose Rodriguez: He was brilliant. He was scary smart. But he's also evil. And he will use that intelligence to define different ways of coming after us.

He says that in the beginning, KSM would respond to questions by reciting verses from the Koran.

Jose Rodriguez: He eventually told us, "Well look, I will talk once I get to New York and I get my lawyer." He knew that if he got into the criminal process in the U.S. that he would get a lawyer and he would use that forum.

Lesley Stahl: He'd use it as a platform for his ideology.

Jose Rodriguez: He would use it as a platform.

Faced with KSM's obstinance, CIA interrogators began ratcheting up the severity of the questioning step-by-step.

Lesley Stahl: Did you make him wear diapers?

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[Rattoo]

Excellent book. The evidence is in. Bottom line: Enhanced Interrogation as part of a HUMINT collection program works! Anyone who denies this knows nothing about interrogation or HUMINT. Jose Rodriguez is a great American Patriot. Thank God we still have a few people like this left to keep us safe. On the other hand, the book reveals what many Americans have suspected for some time: There are anti-American ideologues in the government and media, who will do everything within their power to destroy the U.S. and anyone who tries to protect and defend her. In simply doing his job, Rodriguez had to contend with self-serving bureaucrats, politicians and malignant reporters hell-bent on releasing classified information to the world. It is these illegal leaks, and not Rodriguez' noble and necessary HUMINT activities, that are criminal. The book demonstrates what a hopeless bureaucratic nightmare our intelligence and defense services have become; an endless charade of paperwork, rules, attorneys and confusing nonsensical, bureaucratic steps, just to conduct simple intelligence activities. Certainly, at this rate, we will not--we cannot--prevail in a war with a capable adversary. And the facts revealed, so far, demonstrate this is exactly what liberals in the U.S. want. Consistent with facts revealed in this book, and stated liberal ideology, we now see irrefutable evidence that the Obama administration and its corrupt Attorney General and his minions, are behind further leaks of classified information and a grand cover up of the same. No amount of sham regime "investigations," however, can cover-up the truth. Lawless Obama, Holder and treasonous leaker-liberals should be tried and jailed. Rodriguez deserves high praise and our gratitude for doing what needed to be done to keep us safe, in the face of liberal treason.

[bb911b]

This guy makes me crap my pants. We are all one designation away from being a terrorist. With a stroke of a pen, you won't be able to fly, won't be allowed a lawyer, a trial in front of your peers, and executed all within a year. Add in some torture at Gitmo too, although it will be done "by the book".

The constant evoking of the thousands killed during the most famous false flag event of our time is chilling. As 911 fades from most citizen's memories,its usefulness to the govt for stripping us of our rights and freedoms is endless.

Visit wheredidthetowersgo.com if you want to understand further why nothing your government does now can be trusted. One lie begets the next.

[PatriotUSMC]

This man is my new role model. I am tired of hearing people cry about the comfort of terrorist. Yes, they probably where tortured but so what. I would rather that then have my wife or child killed by one of these people. If you complainers disagree then say so. If you know a better way to get an uncooperative subject to cooperate then say so. If not then shut up and let these brave people do the jobs that need to be done but your not willing to do.

[chmhale]

Rodriguez is a lying, stinking bag of crap. This morning on Morning Joe he claimed that KSM was only waterboarded 3 times. Then he said even KSM said he was boarded 5 times. After that he says KSM was waterboarded 3 times or maybe a few more. During this interview he admits the number 180 times, during Scarborough he claims 180 is a lye. He can't keep his story straight from one interview to another, because he is full of CRAP!

[PatriotUSMC]

So what, do you know a better way to make KSM talk. If not then stop talking.

[timmeh60]

Leslie is a great example of out of touch liberalism on parade! The spinelessness, wimpiness of our liberal friends to think that sleep deprivation, loud music is considered "Orwellian". What a joke. You libs are WHY we get attacked and people like the ones who strap bombs to children to blow up innocent people, who SAW off heads of captured journalists, etc. are why OBL attacked us. He even said as much because of our retreat after Somalia and the USS Cole where we essentially did nothing in retalliation. But to listen to Leslie wringing her hands worrying about the feelings of KSM is a laugh riot.

[PatriotUSMC]

Well said mate.

[demsuk]

Thank you Mr.Rodriguez.You are brave man not only for your heroic work done on anti terrorism but to go public on 60 Minutes.Thank you! You have restored my hope in American Government. You did a fine job not only finding KSM and others but in extracting vital information as well.I agree 100% with your comment on Obama contridicting the former administration.....disgusting !Please stay active and available , because as unfortunate it might be , your superior job skills and services will probably be needed again to defend my family and this country.This country should be proud to have a man like you defending it , I know I am.Please stay focused, don't let the book distract you from the truth which is that there are extremely dangerous people in the world that do not approve of our life style and seek to cahnge it and destroy it and the world as we used to know. The world is a different place now and you understand that and understand its need for protection. Please keep up the good work .....the USA and the world needs more men like yourself and Mr.Bush. Thank you.

[luckyturqoise]

I also want to thank this man. Why does Stahl treat him like the enemy? She should go ask the families of 911 what they feel about Rodriques? She needs a good slap in the face. This is why people abhor journalists today!!! Anal Retentive war on the minds the viewer. I rarely watch tv any more and this is why. Retire Stahl and enjoy it, thanks to men like Mr.R.

[davalee]

I was so incensed this past Sunday evening listening to Leslie Stahl downgrade a man who was working to break the code of conduct in the terrorists. Of course, we do not hold to cruelty, but CIA was doing a job that was necessary to use during wartime! If anyone thinks war isn't evil, one needs to step out into the field to discover the enemy is out to kill, steal,and destroy. For the past two weeks 60 minutes has left a bad taste in our mouths about our military as well as concerning Christians in Israel It is despicable to see what you are trying to do to our nation!!!! Why not be on the side of real Americans instead of the regime.

[BCSEA]

A great man... a hero... a spy who uncloaked himself to sell a book.

It is clear we tortured prisoners, unclear what we learned as a result and that we sold our soul in the process. Whatever excuses we used don't really matter.

If you don't like CBS switch back to Fox news. Rupert Murdoch will tell you what you want to hear. (Still waiting for that hacking story to break open stateside btw.) Fox motto: "Doing George Orwell proud".

[Johnny_Friendly]

this guy is just plain creepy. let's see, am I admitting to war crimes?? heck yeah! in fact, I'm gonna write about it. Hubris...
this guy needs to be prosecuted along with his buddies getting off on torturing prisoners.

[BCSEA]

How did we become afraid enough to turn our national values over to small-minded career stooges like Jose Rodriguez. His pathetic attempt to seek attention for his role and sell his book puts at risk everything he supposedly worked to build. The world is full of people willing to give away their values for opportunities like this. The Nation should choose more wisely next time. Like G Gordon Liddy and Oliver North before him he wraps himself in the flag of protecting the homeland while shredding the tapes showing the actual results of his work. It is so easy to give yourself an "A" for "D" work when no one can see what you are up to. Even the FBI thinks he is a clown.

And Leslie... never apologize for posing real questions to attention seekers given a national audience by CBS. Please channel your inner Mike Wallace next time. I miss that man... I really do.

[eghall23]

I commend Rodriguez for protecting our country. Sure, wouldn't it be nice if we could all be nice to each other and be friends? Unfortunately, sometimes we have to use tough measures to protect ourselves. It isn't torture. It is necessary. In this interview, Stahl pretty much sealed the deal for me to not watch 60 Minutes anymore. I get that tough interview questions need to be asked, but good God, could she be any more biased? Give me a break. I congratulate Rodriguez for keeping us safe.

[BCSEA]

If you believe that Rodriguez is keeping us safe you and I have a very different idea of what safe is. What kind of self-serving clown talks about his methods after the fact? Maybe the kind that allows himself to be taped driving to CIA HQ in a convertible vette (over-compensating anyone?). His main reason for the interview is to sell his book. That in itself disqualifies him from the conversation. In my opinion Leslie didn't go deep enough. The only other people who witnessed his techniques thought they were useless, wasteful, ham-handed and counter-productive. I get that we all want to punch back but we need to be careful who we hire to do our punching. A competent spy would never be seen on TV. A self-aggrandizing book ***** is what we have here.