Hard Measures: Ex-CIA head defends post-9/11 tactics

 

Jose Rodriguez has no regrets about the CIA using "enhanced interrogation techniques" -- methods that some consider torture - on suspected al Qaeda members detained and questioned after 9/11. Lesley Stahl interviews the former head of the CIA's Clandestine Service about waterboarding and other methods he says were essential to getting information from suspected terrorists, and he denies claims that these harsh measures caused detainees to provide false or unreliable information that misled the CIA. In fact, Rodriguez says that high-level detainees Khalid Sheik Mohammed and Abu Zubaydah provided their best information only after harsh treatment, a claim that the CIA's own investigator general has challenged.

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The following script is from "Hard Measures" which originally aired on April 29, 2012. Lesley Stahl is the correspondent. Richard Bonin, producer.

60 Minutes Overtime

The CIA ''torture memo'' »

After the attacks of 9/11, the CIA sought and was granted unprecedented authority to capture al Qaeda suspects, whisk them off to secret sites and interrogate them with harsh techniques, including waterboarding.

The man who ran the interrogation program was Jose Rodriguez, a CIA spy in Latin America, who rose to become head of the Clandestine Service, the CIA's dark side.

When the agency's secret program was revealed, it was widely criticized but the blunt-spoken, Puerto Rican-born Rodriguez is fighting back. He's written a book, a defense of the interrogations, called "Hard Measures" -- and tonight you will hear his side of the story.

It's the first time someone this close to the program, this accountable has gone public explaining why techniques that had long been condemned by the U.S. as torture were employed.

Jose Rodriguez: For the first time in our history, we had an enemy come into our homeland and kill 3,000 people. I mean, that was a huge deal. People jumping from the towers to their death. The people running away from the cloud of dust, terrified out of their mind. This was a threat. And we had to throw everything at it.

Which is why Jose Rodriguez says that when he ran the CIA's Counterterrorist Center, he came up with the idea of employing harsh interrogation techniques. And10 years later, he feels he still has to justify their use.

Lesley Stahl: You had no qualms? We used to consider some of them war crimes.

Jose Rodriguez: We made some al Qaeda terrorists with American blood on their hands uncomfortable for a few days. But we did the right thing for the right reason. And the right reason was to protect the homeland and to protect American lives. So yes, I had no qualms.

Rodriguez spent 31 years in the CIA's Clandestine Service where spies are revered as "fighter jocks". He rose thru the ranks, eventually running covert operations as head of the Latin America division. When al Qaeda struck on 9/11, he'd had no experience in counterterrorism or the Middle East. But he wanted "in" on the war on terror, and went to the CIA's Counterterrorist Center, where the main objective was to stop another attack on the U.S. homeland.

Jose Rodriguez: We were flooded with intelligence about an imminent attack. That al Qaeda had an anthrax program, and that they were planning to use it against us. And that they were seeking nuclear materials to use in some type of nuclear weapon. So we were facing a ticking, time bomb situation and we were very concerned.

Lesley Stahl: So you were getting pressure from Congress and the White House to take the gloves off. Did you go to the dark side?

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[Rattoo]

Excellent book. The evidence is in. Bottom line: Enhanced Interrogation as part of a HUMINT collection program works! Anyone who denies this knows nothing about interrogation or HUMINT. Jose Rodriguez is a great American Patriot. Thank God we still have a few people like this left to keep us safe. On the other hand, the book reveals what many Americans have suspected for some time: There are anti-American ideologues in the government and media, who will do everything within their power to destroy the U.S. and anyone who tries to protect and defend her. In simply doing his job, Rodriguez had to contend with self-serving bureaucrats, politicians and malignant reporters hell-bent on releasing classified information to the world. It is these illegal leaks, and not Rodriguez' noble and necessary HUMINT activities, that are criminal. The book demonstrates what a hopeless bureaucratic nightmare our intelligence and defense services have become; an endless charade of paperwork, rules, attorneys and confusing nonsensical, bureaucratic steps, just to conduct simple intelligence activities. Certainly, at this rate, we will not--we cannot--prevail in a war with a capable adversary. And the facts revealed, so far, demonstrate this is exactly what liberals in the U.S. want. Consistent with facts revealed in this book, and stated liberal ideology, we now see irrefutable evidence that the Obama administration and its corrupt Attorney General and his minions, are behind further leaks of classified information and a grand cover up of the same. No amount of sham regime "investigations," however, can cover-up the truth. Lawless Obama, Holder and treasonous leaker-liberals should be tried and jailed. Rodriguez deserves high praise and our gratitude for doing what needed to be done to keep us safe, in the face of liberal treason.

[bb911b]

This guy makes me crap my pants. We are all one designation away from being a terrorist. With a stroke of a pen, you won't be able to fly, won't be allowed a lawyer, a trial in front of your peers, and executed all within a year. Add in some torture at Gitmo too, although it will be done "by the book".

The constant evoking of the thousands killed during the most famous false flag event of our time is chilling. As 911 fades from most citizen's memories,its usefulness to the govt for stripping us of our rights and freedoms is endless.

Visit wheredidthetowersgo.com if you want to understand further why nothing your government does now can be trusted. One lie begets the next.

[PatriotUSMC]

This man is my new role model. I am tired of hearing people cry about the comfort of terrorist. Yes, they probably where tortured but so what. I would rather that then have my wife or child killed by one of these people. If you complainers disagree then say so. If you know a better way to get an uncooperative subject to cooperate then say so. If not then shut up and let these brave people do the jobs that need to be done but your not willing to do.

[chmhale]

Rodriguez is a lying, stinking bag of crap. This morning on Morning Joe he claimed that KSM was only waterboarded 3 times. Then he said even KSM said he was boarded 5 times. After that he says KSM was waterboarded 3 times or maybe a few more. During this interview he admits the number 180 times, during Scarborough he claims 180 is a lye. He can't keep his story straight from one interview to another, because he is full of CRAP!

[PatriotUSMC]

So what, do you know a better way to make KSM talk. If not then stop talking.

[timmeh60]

Leslie is a great example of out of touch liberalism on parade! The spinelessness, wimpiness of our liberal friends to think that sleep deprivation, loud music is considered "Orwellian". What a joke. You libs are WHY we get attacked and people like the ones who strap bombs to children to blow up innocent people, who SAW off heads of captured journalists, etc. are why OBL attacked us. He even said as much because of our retreat after Somalia and the USS Cole where we essentially did nothing in retalliation. But to listen to Leslie wringing her hands worrying about the feelings of KSM is a laugh riot.

[PatriotUSMC]

Well said mate.

[demsuk]

Thank you Mr.Rodriguez.You are brave man not only for your heroic work done on anti terrorism but to go public on 60 Minutes.Thank you! You have restored my hope in American Government. You did a fine job not only finding KSM and others but in extracting vital information as well.I agree 100% with your comment on Obama contridicting the former administration.....disgusting !Please stay active and available , because as unfortunate it might be , your superior job skills and services will probably be needed again to defend my family and this country.This country should be proud to have a man like you defending it , I know I am.Please stay focused, don't let the book distract you from the truth which is that there are extremely dangerous people in the world that do not approve of our life style and seek to cahnge it and destroy it and the world as we used to know. The world is a different place now and you understand that and understand its need for protection. Please keep up the good work .....the USA and the world needs more men like yourself and Mr.Bush. Thank you.

[luckyturqoise]

I also want to thank this man. Why does Stahl treat him like the enemy? She should go ask the families of 911 what they feel about Rodriques? She needs a good slap in the face. This is why people abhor journalists today!!! Anal Retentive war on the minds the viewer. I rarely watch tv any more and this is why. Retire Stahl and enjoy it, thanks to men like Mr.R.

[davalee]

I was so incensed this past Sunday evening listening to Leslie Stahl downgrade a man who was working to break the code of conduct in the terrorists. Of course, we do not hold to cruelty, but CIA was doing a job that was necessary to use during wartime! If anyone thinks war isn't evil, one needs to step out into the field to discover the enemy is out to kill, steal,and destroy. For the past two weeks 60 minutes has left a bad taste in our mouths about our military as well as concerning Christians in Israel It is despicable to see what you are trying to do to our nation!!!! Why not be on the side of real Americans instead of the regime.

[BCSEA]

A great man... a hero... a spy who uncloaked himself to sell a book.

It is clear we tortured prisoners, unclear what we learned as a result and that we sold our soul in the process. Whatever excuses we used don't really matter.

If you don't like CBS switch back to Fox news. Rupert Murdoch will tell you what you want to hear. (Still waiting for that hacking story to break open stateside btw.) Fox motto: "Doing George Orwell proud".

[Johnny_Friendly]

this guy is just plain creepy. let's see, am I admitting to war crimes?? heck yeah! in fact, I'm gonna write about it. Hubris...
this guy needs to be prosecuted along with his buddies getting off on torturing prisoners.

[BCSEA]

How did we become afraid enough to turn our national values over to small-minded career stooges like Jose Rodriguez. His pathetic attempt to seek attention for his role and sell his book puts at risk everything he supposedly worked to build. The world is full of people willing to give away their values for opportunities like this. The Nation should choose more wisely next time. Like G Gordon Liddy and Oliver North before him he wraps himself in the flag of protecting the homeland while shredding the tapes showing the actual results of his work. It is so easy to give yourself an "A" for "D" work when no one can see what you are up to. Even the FBI thinks he is a clown.

And Leslie... never apologize for posing real questions to attention seekers given a national audience by CBS. Please channel your inner Mike Wallace next time. I miss that man... I really do.

[eghall23]

I commend Rodriguez for protecting our country. Sure, wouldn't it be nice if we could all be nice to each other and be friends? Unfortunately, sometimes we have to use tough measures to protect ourselves. It isn't torture. It is necessary. In this interview, Stahl pretty much sealed the deal for me to not watch 60 Minutes anymore. I get that tough interview questions need to be asked, but good God, could she be any more biased? Give me a break. I congratulate Rodriguez for keeping us safe.

[BCSEA]

If you believe that Rodriguez is keeping us safe you and I have a very different idea of what safe is. What kind of self-serving clown talks about his methods after the fact? Maybe the kind that allows himself to be taped driving to CIA HQ in a convertible vette (over-compensating anyone?). His main reason for the interview is to sell his book. That in itself disqualifies him from the conversation. In my opinion Leslie didn't go deep enough. The only other people who witnessed his techniques thought they were useless, wasteful, ham-handed and counter-productive. I get that we all want to punch back but we need to be careful who we hire to do our punching. A competent spy would never be seen on TV. A self-aggrandizing book ***** is what we have here.