Crime, punishment, and the shame of being a Madoff

Exactly when Bernie Madoff went wrong is unclear. But as his reputation for delivering steady profits grew, the Madoffs began living the good life. A penthouse in Manhattan - homes in Palm Beach and the South of France - and yachts in both places. The family became celebrated for philanthropy and Madoff became a Wall Street big shot.

Andrew: He was a big figure in the industry. He was the chairman of Nasdaq. He was constantly being honored as "Man of the Year" of this organization and that. And that-- that had an-- an effect on me.

Both sons went to work as traders for their father's firm in the late 80s - a time authorities believe Madoff's Ponzi scheme was well under way.

Safer: Why would your father want to taint his sons by bringing them into a situation that could, well, spell disaster?

Andrew: You know, that's-- that's a great question. And that's something that-- that I really agonize over, as a son. You know, what my father did was-- so horrible. It's hard for me to understand that. And I'm not any closer to understanding it now than I was three years ago.

Bernard L. Madoff Securities employed over a hundred people but it seemed like a family business. His brother Peter and several cousins worked there. Mark and Andrew worked on the 19th floor of New York's Lipstick Building where they legitimately traded securities for the firm and for outside clients. The investment advisory business - the Ponzi scheme - was housed two floors below where their father never made any trades at all. He was simply creating phony paper statements that showed steady profits for his clients - his victims. Access to the 17th floor was highly restricted.

Safer: You musta been curious about why the 17th floor was such a secret place. When you or Mark asked him about his end of the business what did he say?

Andrew: It was always a very similar response. It was, "You guys have your business to worry about and let me worry about my business and the conversation would end there.

Safer: But people say there's no way these kids could not have had-- at the very least suspected something was going on.

Andrew: Well keep in mind these were completely separate businesses. We were executing hundreds of thousands of transactions a day. And that kept all of us incredibly busy. And it just didn't occur to me that he could be involved in any kind of criminal activity.

Andrew says his father would often walk his clients through the 19th floor to show actual trades being made.

Safer: You feel that the legitimacy of the trading business offered protection to what your father was doing?

Andrew: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Safer: That he was using you and your brother?

Andrew: Absolutely. It was one of the hardest things to come to grips with, in trying to get my head around this, was that feeling that I had been used-- almost as-- as a human shield by him. He-- it's-- it's unforgivable. No-- no father should do that to their sons.

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Madoff's beach house seized

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[cchamberlain2088]

this is a deep story

[Cole_West]

While I don't wish anyone to die, I am dismayed that we are even speaking to her. She has no story. She is GUILTY! Her husband admitted everything to save the family... Well that did and didn't work. I regret their child killing himself. It couldn't have been that bad. BUT... BUT, why put her on TV and give her time to garner any sympathy. Any money she received (if she did) should go directly to those who lost out. AND SHAME ON HER FOR hoping we would believe her that she was a victim too.

[TheEthicsGuy]

Today the New York Times published a letter I wrote about Ruth and Andrew Madoff:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/02/opinion/helping-madoffs-victims.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

I'd be keen to hear your thoughts about it. Thank you.

[cbsblogger]

Somehow all along the lambs should have expected the Madoff's would be taken care of at taxpayer expense. She attempts to portray herself as the victim and the media goes easy on her. There are other monies out there and she likely knows where it is.

Why didn't she and her son just succeed at committing suicide and will the stolen assets to charity? At least someone of need would have benefited instead of permitting the thief's family to benefit. It is an outrage that she received anything.

[MyEthix]

Ruth and her son did not attempt suicide - it was Ruth and Bernie who allegedly attempted suicide. So you've clearly not paid attention to what is going on here at ALL... yet YOU, Sherlock, have deduced that there are 'other monies out there' and she 'likely knows where it is'. Wow. Your astute powers of observation are... A FAIL.

[MyEthix]

Just for clarification, I've been a victim of theft on more than one occasion. I've done work for people who have stolen my time and my creative work - to the tune of thousands of dollars - and I'm not a rich person and could not afford to lose that type of money. I've had people in my home who have walked off with things that were precious to me, irreplaceable items. I've had business partners embezzle funds. I know what it's like to lose EVERYTHING financially because someone lied to me. But that doesn't give me the right to wish people and their entire family dead. That type of attitude does nothing but harm the person harboring those types of emotions. "It's like drinking poison and expecting someone else to die."

[MyEthix]

I am disgusted by what I am reading on these boards. The hate and the vitriol is almost too much to stomach. People saying she should have tried harder to commit suicide? What a bunch of sick people. I hope NONE of you have children. How many of you have ever been betrayed by a loved one? Have you ever been cheated on by a husband? Wife? Boyfriend or girlfriend? How many of you know someone who was killed by their significant other out of the blue because they simply wanted to get rid of them - and they never even had a chance or an inkling that this person they loved was even capable of something of that nature? How many of you have had someone close to your family that you felt you knew like the back of your hand molest either yourself or someone in your family? Ever had an authority figure take advantage of you? Personally, my sister was molested by my father... should I have 'seen it coming' and was I, at 11 years old, guilty by association? Would that apply to my sister as well? Should we be dead because of what our father did? Maybe some of you ought to go look up 'honor killings'... they are a part of certain societies that run cross grain to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness - and maybe SOME of you would fit quite well into those societies, judging by your comments on this board? But in THIS society -- in America -- people are INNOCENT until PROVEN guilty. They are NOT guilty simply because someone close to them committed a crime and 'they should have known'. That is a very DANGEROUS, not to mention IGNORANT mentality. People get deceived by those they loved and trusted EVERY DAY!! What absolutely sickens me here is that this is all over MONEY. Money, people!!! Something that can be replaced. LIVES cannot be replaced!!! You want to talk about VICTIMS? Go talk to the people who are still living through 9/11... those people are truly victims. They cannot EVER get their loved ones back, they have to think about how their loved one(s) died... did they jump to their deaths? Did they suffer? They didn't even get to say good-bye... mothers, fathers, children, loved ones who are never coming back. Bernie Madoff has ruined the lives of everyone - including his wife and his children. Ask yourself this question... you who are playing 'God' and you who are just so incredibly smart and all-knowing (I'll bet not a single one of you people who are clearly so perfect has EVER made a mistake or made an error in judgment!)... what will society say about you 100 years from now? 200 years from now? Who, IN THEIR RIGHT MIND, condemns an entire family and wishes death on them because of what ONE person did? Imagine for one moment (I know it's hard... but give it a shot) THAT YOU'RE WRONG! Imagine if they truly knew nothing... what does that make YOU? The pillar of society? Or does it make you the kind of person that people WARN their children about - you become an example of what NOT to be - the very antithesis of compassion and forgiveness. Sorry, but money or the theft of money should not draw the kind of hatred seen on these boards.

[sarksange]

i sent a comment to mr. safer last night, questioning the merits of all the recent maddoff exposure and attention (guite a privilidged opportunity it seems to me). i haven't heard a response. i wondered what the victims feel about this opportunity that they'll never get. i wonder how it makes them feel to see and read all the nonsense comming from the maddoff family. i am appaled that the media feels a need to subject the victims to this gut wrenching exposure. i haven't read all 170+ comments but i would think there are alot of upset victims as well there should be, and how many haven't bothered to comment, probably in shock that these people are given the stage and the exposure. even the nytimes has published an interview. and i can't believe no one questioned the suicide story. took a few pills (can't say how many, one, two maybe) and woke up the next day. suicide, right. no note, no hospital care, nothing to substantiate it. how many victims actually did commit suicide, i wonder. my sympathies to them and all the others who have to live with their tragedies. i hope you neverr have to see the maddoffs on tv or in the news again. though i'm sur that won't happen as long as corporate media can make a buck off of them. enough said, maybe too much, but i can't believe these people were afforded the exposure with no regards to the victims.

[baileyccc]

have you heard her voice and seen the wrinkling on her face, she has to be a 3 pack a day person. NASTY.

[hotsummerday]

I think they should have tried harder to commit suicide. I wish I never have to see her face, nor her children's face ever again.

[Montana5]

She wants to be rid of the shame? How about returning the $2.5 million of other people's money she was allowed to keep? Nah, she's not that ashamed. And will someone at CBS PLEASE buy some Visine for Morley Safer? His eyes look just like my dog's did after he was sprayed by a skunk.